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Old January 1st, 2018, 04:09 PM   #11

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Old January 1st, 2018, 04:13 PM   #12
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When Hamgyong became a province? 1413. Not sure of its original extent. I believe they expanded up to the Tumen river in 1432-1433.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 1st, 2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 04:22 PM   #13
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The weaponry on the chwasuyong turtle ship, which appears to have been the more common type, was primarily cannon. Archers/handgunners were also present. Handgunners used hand-cannons at first and later transitioned into using muskets or hybrid designs.

Three main cannon were used, the chonja or "heaven" which was similar in bore to a European 14-pdr culverin, the chija or "earth" which had about the bore of a 9-pdr demiculverin, and the hyonja or "black" which had a bore about the size of a saker. The smaller hwangja had a bore about the size of a falconet but it doesn't appear to have been used very much.

These cannon fired either a mix of round and grapeshot (generally for anti-personnel use) or giant iron-finned and headed arrows which could weigh up to 60 pounds (generally for anti-ship use). The planking on the turtle ship was only designed for countering small arms fire so was quite thin, about 3-5 inches, as the Japanese rarely used artillery, and even that was usually small in size, on their ships.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 1st, 2018 at 04:24 PM.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 04:27 PM   #14
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Here's a picture of reproduction chonja, chija, and hyonja cannon based on surviving pieces:
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 05:06 PM   #15
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The main hand cannon in use by the time of the Imjin War was the sungja. It's about 50 cm long:
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 01:18 PM   #16
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Most Korean warships were single-decked pyongson (auxiliary warships) two-decked chonson, often called p'anokson in English though that's not quite an accurate name in my opinion.

These were also depicted in that Japanese painting from the mid 17th century.

Most of these had 20-25 cannon while flagships could carry 25-30 or so.

Here's a depiction from the late 18th century:
Click the image to open in full size.

Mainline warship (late 17th century painting; note the single-decked auxiliary warship in the lower right):
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Flagship:
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 2nd, 2018 at 01:41 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 03:16 PM   #17
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The size of these ships was fairly small. The flagships would be about 100 ft long while the main battleships about 70 and the auxiliaries 50 or so ft. The turtle ship appears to have been between the size of the auxiliaries at the smallest and the main battleships at the largest. Anything larger would have been impractical in Korea's unique southern and western coastal environment, which consisted of many small islands and tight inlets with shallow water and fast currents.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 2nd, 2018 at 03:19 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 12:30 PM   #18
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I must add that the number of men on the two-decked ships including turtle ships, would have been around 140-170 with 20-30 guns, while the two-decked auxiliaries were much smaller, around 30 men or so, with 4 guns.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 9th, 2018 at 12:39 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 03:47 PM   #19

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What is the ratio of heaven, earth, and black cannons for these guns? Do they include swivel guns?
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackneyedScribe View Post
What is the ratio of heaven, earth, and black cannons for these guns? Do they include swivel guns?
The heaven cannon was around 1.3 m long with a bore of 13 cm, the earth about 1 m long with a bore of 10 cm, the black about 0.7 m long with a bore of about 6-8 cm, and the yellow around 0.5 m long with a bore of about 4 cm. None of these were swivel guns until a swivel variant of the yellow cannon was developed around 1600.

The sources rarely go into which cannon were where. The only direct evidence is the description of the turtle ship which had two "black" cannons in a section of 4 ft tall gunwale under the anchor.

Yi Sunshin's writings rarely mention the "yellow" cannon, and "earth" and "black" cannon are discussed as if they were the most common. The "heaven" cannon is mentioned somewhat less than the "earth" or "black" but not as rarely as the "yellow".

The approximate size of the guns and the heights of their muzzles when the guns were horizontal on their carriages would be pretty consistent with the short gunwales having ports which held small cannons ("black" and "yellow") and the tall gunwales, such as those on the lower decks of the turtle ship, would have ports for large cannons ("heaven" and "earth"). Large cannons could probably be fired over the short gunwales.

So if the gunwales had ports for specific cannons as I suspect then this would mean roughly 22 large "heaven" or "earth" cannons and 2 small "black" or "yellow" cannons on the turtle ship. The panokson would have about 24 guns (~30 guns for the largest ones) as well but probably less restricted in size because those ships weren't as closed-in and didn't have as many ports that required a specific-sized gun.

European-derived breechloaders also didn't catch on until the Ming introduced them during the Imjin War. They do seem to have been present beforehand in Korea, however, as there are chambers excavated which date to the 1560s.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 9th, 2018 at 05:31 PM.
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