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Old August 4th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #1
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Japan-China ww2


How did Japan woop China so easily? Its crazy how many times CHina has been conquered. I dont see why ppl doubt the USA cant do it in this day in age.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #2
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Re: Japan-China ww2


Woop them? What are you talking about? Japan didn't win the war in China.

How many times China has been conquered??? Well there's the Manchus and the Mongols. Following the downfall of the Han Dynasty there were the turkic peoples who came in too.

Anyway, Japan slowly encroached onto the Asian continent over a long period of time. During that time period, China had become fractured and was fighting itself as well as the Japanese. Taiwan was taken in a seperate war in 1895 and Japan took the Liandong Peninsula as well as Manchuria in 1932 but prior to that they held a lot of power in Manchuria and the Chinese Warlord there was backed by them. In 1932 they also attacked Shanghai with several divisions but withdrew thereafter. They also too more territory near Mongolia and Peking before 1937.
Once it turned into an all out war of conquest they quickly took a lot of territory but the Chinese just kept moving back West so they never beat or conquered China. It was like the problem Germany had in Russia. Too much men and space vs logistics and not enough men.
So Japan no more wooped China than Germany did Russia.

As for the US conquering China. Ridiculous. They could certainly shut down the Chinese economy by destroying its navy and merchant fleet while blockading the coast, but conquest would be absurd. They could also destroy China's economy by suddenly not buying anything and causing massive unemployment and unrest but that ain't gonna happen because Walmart would have to be shut down too.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 08:44 AM   #3
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Re: Japan-China ww2


China welcomes conquest, thats the best way for it to expand
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Old August 5th, 2010, 10:04 AM   #4

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Re: Japan-China ww2


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Realism View Post
Woop them? What are you talking about? Japan didn't win the war in China.

How many times China has been conquered??? Well there's the Manchus and the Mongols. Following the downfall of the Han Dynasty there were the turkic peoples who came in too.

Anyway, Japan slowly encroached onto the Asian continent over a long period of time. During that time period, China had become fractured and was fighting itself as well as the Japanese. Taiwan was taken in a seperate war in 1895 and Japan took the Liandong Peninsula as well as Manchuria in 1932 but prior to that they held a lot of power in Manchuria and the Chinese Warlord there was backed by them. In 1932 they also attacked Shanghai with several divisions but withdrew thereafter. They also too more territory near Mongolia and Peking before 1937.
Once it turned into an all out war of conquest they quickly took a lot of territory but the Chinese just kept moving back West so they never beat or conquered China. It was like the problem Germany had in Russia. Too much men and space vs logistics and not enough men.
So Japan no more wooped China than Germany did Russia.

As for the US conquering China. Ridiculous. They could certainly shut down the Chinese economy by destroying its navy and merchant fleet while blockading the coast, but conquest would be absurd. They could also destroy China's economy by suddenly not buying anything and causing massive unemployment and unrest but that ain't gonna happen because Walmart would have to be shut down too.
Nice post! An interesting corollary question might be....If Japan HAD "wooped" China quickly, would the Pacific war have happened?
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Old August 5th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #5
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Re: Japan-China ww2


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Originally Posted by diddyriddick View Post
Nice post! An interesting corollary question might be....If Japan HAD "wooped" China quickly, would the Pacific war have happened?
Ruling China would be a momentous task. It's huge. (Duh right?) I can't imagine how many soldiers it would take to control the territory.(don't ask Rumsfield). Especially considering the Japanese weren't exactly benevolent rulers. I think constant pacification and explotation would keep them occupied for a long time.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 08:14 PM   #6
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Re: Japan-China ww2


China's development reached a very bad cycle from the late 19th century onward, it had only a little military modernazation and even less of that in terms of economic and social modernaztion, meanwhile, it's entire old social order was imploding in dramatic fashion.

When Japan began invading China iin earnest (in the early 30s) China was essentially the equavalent of Afgansitan in 2001, carved up by multiple warlords with one somewhat dominant faction (the Nationalist party) having some level of control over the individual warlords.

Essentially, they caught China at a very bad time. possibly even worse than they were in the 1890s at least then China had some hardwares. but the 1930s-40s, essentially all the Chinese had were rifles and even machine guns / grenades / mortars were not very abudent, let alone cannons/tanks/airplanes/warship. which were virtually non-existent.

Still, the Japanese situation in China was the equvalent of the US in Vietnam, they were able to win some early pitch battles, but as the lines extended and the Chinese forced dig in at tough terrains, they grounded to a halt and was unable to really break through . the lines basically went back and forth along the central regions of the Yangtsi river, while in the North thinly spread Japanese forces were badly harrased by Communist forces with hit and run tactics.

As for nowadays, the US COULD defeat China if they really don't care about any of the consequences (aka WW2 style total war, mass draft and the willingness to risk losing a entire fleet, let alone millions of ground troops and the possbility of some of the west coast cities getting nuked). but the odds of that is basically 0, and even then actually going in and holding it is another story altogeter.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:02 AM   #7

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Re: Japan-China ww2


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Woop them? What are you talking about? Japan didn't win the war in China.
Right, they didn't win the war. China did lose 3.22 million soldiers while Japan lost 396,000.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:22 AM   #8
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Re: Japan-China ww2


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Right, they didn't win the war. China did lose 3.22 million soldiers while Japan lost 396,000.
And?
The Soviet Union lost at least six times more men in WW2 than Germany; would anyone here dispute that the III Reich was defeated?

BTW, we have been here before; in previous threads it was pretended that the US actually won at Vietnam War, again due to the heavily unbalanced casualty toll.

Needless to say, under that same standard the American Revolutionary War would have been won by the UK...

This phenomenon is evidently due to the loss of focus; the same as in chess, in general terms casualties are not by themselves the goal of war; they are just the means.

Last edited by sylla1; August 6th, 2010 at 06:51 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:28 AM   #9

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Re: Japan-China ww2


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This phenomenon is evidently due to the loss of focus; the same as in chess, in general terms casualties are not by themselves the goal of war; they are just the means.
I just think it's a little absurd to think that being a bullet sponge shows martial prowess.

Yes, victories are not determined by kills. You can be victorius and get spanked.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 08:30 AM   #10
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Re: Japan-China ww2


if we look at it in a really cold hearted manner, we can say a country can produce both manpower and hardware, both are productions used by a country in a war. Japan was using its hardware in killing Chinese manpower, but Chinese production of manpower outlasted Japanese production of hardware and manpower... hmmm
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