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Old December 8th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1

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How the Mongol Reputation Grew


After declaring war in 1211, Genghis Khan set out to take over China. An army of mercenaries was sent by the Chinese to stop him. The Chinese knew he could go around the great wall, so they had booby trapped areas close to the exposed border. They had buried nails in sandy areas, where the heavy weight of a horse on the small surface of a hoof would sink down, driving the nail into the animal to keep it from continuing.

The Chinese saw the Mongols as illiterate and stupid, but, while illiterate, the Mongols were astute. Instead of attacking the army of mercenaries, the Mongols made a deal with them. They promised to share the spoils of China with them if the mercenaries would join them, in return for guidance around Chinese traps and assistance in battle. The mercenaries, being driven only by pay, happily agreed. Both armies entered China, with maps to avoid all the buried booby traps and knowledge of the Chinese defenses.

Along the route to Beijing, then known as Yanjing, the Mongol cavalry was very successful in the field, but they knew this would not be effective in laying siege to fortified cities. The Mongols captured Chinese engineers and took on any defectors they could find. When they reached the fortified city, they knew they could not mount a successful siege with the weapons they had, and were aware of the powerful Chinese artillery, so they surrounded the city, confiscating every shipment intended for Beijing. The Mongols were in no hurry, as they feasted on food intended for the city and raided nearby villages. At the same time, the engineers and defectors they had provided plans for Chinese artillery and defense structures that could be used to siege Beijing. In 1215, after months of starving the city, with captured Chinese peasants in the front lines to absorb the brunt of Chinese artillery, and with the aid of Chinese weapons the engineers had built, the Mongols launched their attack.

By then, the capital had been moved to Kaifeng, and the notion that the Mongols were illiterate and stupid was far gone. Still, the Mongol reputation was to grow more and more. What were other events that led to that?
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Old December 8th, 2010, 06:37 PM   #2

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


An interesting read, Jake10. Can you recommend a couple books regarding Mongols in their heyday? I'm not so much interested in the leaders, as in day-to-day activities, tactics, ingenuity, setbacks, etc.,.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #3

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


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Originally Posted by Knarly Dan View Post
An interesting read, Jake10. Can you recommend a couple books regarding Mongols in their heyday? I'm not so much interested in the leaders, as in day-to-day activities, tactics, ingenuity, setbacks, etc.,.
Thank you. I like to read about the leaders, but that's just me. You can try The Mongols written by David Morgan. Hope to see you add to the tread later on.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 09:12 AM   #4

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


Okay, thanks. I'll add that to my list of books to buy, which has been growing since the day I discovered this board.

On the off-chance you haven't seen it, there's an excellent 2007 Russian film entitled Mongol, which chronicles Ghengis Khan's early years. Worth watching for several reasons, including spectacular settings.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 10:33 AM   #5

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


Genghis Khan by Harold Lamb really good book.

Their reputation grew largely by propaganda. Before invading a country the mongols would send in spy's dressed as merchants to gather information and spread false rumors. They would spread tales such as the mongols being demons and exaggerate the size of their armies. The mongols also let people escape after sacking a town that didn't surrender to spread fear to the other towns. While conquering china they didn't have siege equipment so they would drive the Chinese prisoners they captured before their armies to take enemy arrows. They would also created dummies and put them on their spare mounts. This made their armies seem much bigger than they were.

All and all their campaigns were designed to install fear and awe to their enemies through propaganda and deception. This led to their fearsome reputation of being unbeatable.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #6
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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


The Mongol reputation eventually morphed into the Timurid/Mughal reputation, which was quite grand...while it lasted.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #7

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


No question regarding Mongol propaganda skills, but I'm not so sure their awesome rep was largely a result of it. Time and again they defeated armies larger than theirs by a combination of planning (including spies), generalship, technology, endurance, ruthlessness... The list goes on and on. It's hard to find a weakness.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:41 AM   #8
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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


Knarly Dan,

Are you related to Steely Dan?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #9

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


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By then, the capital had been moved to Kaifeng, and the notion that the Mongols were illiterate and stupid was far gone. Still, the Mongol reputation was to grow more and more. What were other events that led to that?
Their reputation would grow because when they invaded Khwarzem and Turkestan they invaded one of the greatest cultural and scientific centers of their time and of the Muslim world.The great scientific and cultural centers of Buhara , Samarkant and Taskent all fell to their hands.Where as a majority of the Alims and scientists chose to flee into Anatolia and another half was killed with the rest of Buhara and Semerkant ,some decided to stay with Cengiz Han or with the Turkic leaders who served under him.This caused the Mongol Empire to posses some of the greatest minds of that time and with these great minds came the knowledge and the know how that they carried with them.

The news of this was carried out to other lands by fleeing Turkmens as well as Mongol spies and soon 'Mogolistan' was not only known by its brutality and unmatched military strength but also by the Alims and Scientists that served its Khan.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #10

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Re: How the Mongol Reputation Grew


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Their reputation would grow because when they invaded Khwarzem and Turkestan they invaded one of the greatest cultural and scientific centers of their time and of the Muslim world.The great scientific and cultural centers of Buhara , Samarkant and Taskent all fell to their hands.Where as a majority of the Alims and scientists chose to flee into Anatolia and another half was killed with the rest of Buhara and Semerkant ,some decided to stay with Cengiz Han or with the Turkic leaders who served under him.This caused the Mongol Empire to posses some of the greatest minds of that time and with these great minds came the knowledge and the know how that they carried with them.

The news of this was carried out to other lands by fleeing Turkmens as well as Mongol spies and soon 'Mogolistan' was not only known by its brutality and unmatched military strength but also by the Alims and Scientists that served its Khan.
Yes, the Mongols were opportunists, making use of the knowledge and achievements of others. It’s a sad shame that they destroyed much of the culture of some of the places they took over. In Khwarezm, they replaced the local language, which is the basis for all cultures.

In fact, all of Iran, then Persia, lost much of its culture. When we consider the population there going from over 2.5 million to less than three hundred thousand people due to the Mongol invasion, we have to wonder what was lost.

This was something else that spread the Mongol reputation. They began taking over places with ultimatums of join us and pay us taxes, or face what the Persians and other defying people faced.
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