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Old December 14th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantivarman View Post
you did not react to me but to wenge and i am not forcing you.

my logic is plain since japanese war criminals killed chinese innocent people, shrine must be destroyed, similarly Mao killed many innocent chinese persons so he too does not deserve any shrine .

your answer is not at all related to all this .
well, I had showed my opinion, if mao have crime or not, it is not the reason for japan refuse to accept history.

besides, avantivarman, I had gave you one example about mao's sentences were distorted, so, if you think what you get about mao's information, how much were distorted or not ?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
well, I had showed my opinion, if mao have crime or not, it is not the reason for japan refuse to accept history.

besides, avantivarman, I had gave you one example about mao's sentences were distorted, so, if you think what you get about mao's information, how much were distorted or not ?
look, i am not knowledgeable in chinese so i accepted your argument about distortion of mao 's quote.

I am not going to press it further but if somebody denies that mao killed innocent chinese, he is as much in denial mode as are those japanese claiming that nanking did not happen.


I know certain men who can not lie and they have written great books on Mao.


Mind murder in Maoland is one such book.

the writer is an indian and he wrote this when Nehru pressurized him not to write any such thing so I have every reason to assume that book is factual.
BTW, I am and will remain an outsider so my opinions have no weight and it is upto chinese people to decide on this.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:19 AM   #153

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oh, I see.
sound your attitude is fair.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:22 AM   #154

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You know, whether or not Mao killed innocent Chinese is irrelevent to the question of whether Japan should apologise.

As it happens, I think Japan has apologised - and paid compensation - more than enough times. Successive Prime Ministers and the Emperor have apologised:
List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Equally, I can understand why Korea and China may feel Japan's apologies are insincere, but I'm not sure they will ever be convinced of that fact.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
You know, whether or not Mao killed innocent Chinese is irrelevent to the question of whether Japan should apologise.

As it happens, I think Japan has apologised - and paid compensation - more than enough times. Successive Prime Ministers and the Emperor have apologised:
List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Equally, I can understand why Korea and China may feel Japan's apologies are insincere, but I'm not sure they will ever be convinced of that fact.
Indeed, Japan does apologize but the apologies are consistently made null and void because there are also Japanese who continually deny.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #156

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Indeed, Japan does apologize but the apologies are consistently made null and void because there are also Japanese who continually deny.
You can't stop individual people from having their own opinions.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:22 AM   #157

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You can't stop individual people from having their own opinions.
what let them to ignore obviously facts?

and what let them to slander victims and think themselve as justice side?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #158

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Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
what let them to ignore obviously facts?

and what let them to slander victims and think themselve as justice side?
Whatever the reason, you cannot force people to have a particular opinion. Yes, it should be taught in Japanese schools but that's a different question. The Holocaust is taught in German schools and some Germans still deny it.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #159

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Whatever the reason, you cannot force people to have a particular opinion. Yes, it should be taught in Japanese schools but that's a different question. The Holocaust is taught in German schools and some Germans still deny it.
yes, but German government have clearly attitude to the history problem, the good attitude helped German to became one normal country after ww2.

of course, every country will have different people who have different opinion, but if one country have a lot of people to deny one recognized facts. that means the country is sick.

PS, about the apologize, I can give one information to know chinese ideas.

the sentences are from the Prime minister of china, zhu rongji in 2000/10/4.

“在日本的所有的正式文件里面,从来没有向中国人民道歉过。当然在1995年,村山富市先生,当时的首相, 笼统地向亚洲人民表示过歉意。但是,日本在所有的正式文件里面都没有向中国人民道过歉。因此,不能说中国没 完没了地要求日本道歉,没有!道歉不道歉是你们自己的事情,但是我们希望你们考虑这个问题。”

simple translation:

in all japanese formal documents, had never apology to chinese people. of course, mr. Tomiichi Murayama, the Prime minister of japan in that period, fuzzy express the apology to asia people, but japan had never apologied to chinese people in all formal documents, so japan can't complain china always require for apology, no, there have not apology, that is your right to choice apology or not, but we hope you can think the problem.

Last edited by fangqingming; December 14th, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:49 AM   #160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
yes, but German government have clearly attitude to the history problem, the good attitude helped German to became one normal country after ww2.

of course, every country will have different people who have different opinion, but if one country have a lot of people to deny one recognized facts. that means the country is sick.

PS, about the apologize, I can give one information to know chinese ideas.

the sentences are from the Prime minister of china, zhu rongji in 2000/10/4.

在日本的所有的正式文件里面,从来没有向中国人民道歉过。当然在1995年,村山富市先生,当时的首相, 笼统地向亚洲人民表示过歉意。但是,日本在所有的正式文件里面都没有向中国人民道过歉。因此,不能说中国没 完没了地要求日本道歉,没有!道歉不道歉是你们自己的事情,但是我们希望你们考虑这个问题。

simple translation:

in all japanese formal documents, had never apology to chinese people. of course, mr. Tomiichi Murayama, the Prime minister of japan in that period, fuzzy express the apology to asia people, but japan had never apologied to chinese people in all formal documents, so japan can't complain china always require for apology, no, there have not apology, that is your right to choice apology or not, but we hope you can think the problem.
Well, many countries have different opinions about many aspects of international politics. There are historical things that China disagrees with the rest of the world about as well, but we don't say that China is "sick". Obviously China has its own view of certain things, and Japan has a different view.

As for the apology above, I'd need to see the text of the Japanese apology to form an opinion on it.
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