Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 7th, 2012, 08:03 AM   #401
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by tengri khan View Post
Xianbeis,mongols ,jurchens and manchus are all mongoloid come from far eastern siberia or notherneast china,they can't be turks.and nobody knows if xiongnu(80% mogoloid)is turks or not.
these were tungus people who are not related to turkic tribes pan altaic theory not withstanding.
avantivarman is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 7th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #402

fangqingming's Avatar
history princess
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: dragon's area
Posts: 2,851

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalataTurk View Post
Turkics,like other races had some internal problems and that was for making it clear who will be the kagan/khan of all Turks.This is normal when several tribes claimed the throne.Today,Turkiye is the leading country,such as a Kagan,in Turkic world,despite we are probably the least Turkic in blood among others.We were the only independent Turkic state till collapse of USSR.Thank God others became independent too and we are now 7 states.There are some more places to rescue from captivity.Tataristan,Bashkurtistan,East Turkistan(Uyghurs),Crimean Tatars,South Azerbaijan etc.

Turkic khaganates had their own strategy to weaken Chinese by marrying with their princess so they could claim throne in Chinese dynasty.They would rule Chinese lands as their own wish.Otherwise Chinese were always the biggest enemies of Turks.
Uyghurs themselves even are immigration.

why one immigration ethinic group want to claim the lands?

same reason we can give kurds, even more reasonable.
fangqingming is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #403
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,062

BTW, since we talk about Pan-Turkism and its ideals among Turkic peoples, have to mention that the blue color on Azerbaijan's flag represent the Turkic heritage. I believe Azerbaijan is the only Turkic state which emphasizes it on its flag.

Words of Rasulzade from 1918: "Bizim qaldırdığımız bayrağın üç rəngi: Türk milli mədəniyyətinin, Müsəlman sivilizasiyasının və müasir Avropa demokratik əsaslarının simvoludur."

Three colors of the flag we raise: Is the symbol of Turkic national heritage, Muslim civilization and modern democratic principles of Europe.

Explanation: "Azərbaycan xalqının türk mənşəli olmasını, türkçülük ideyası ilə bağlıdır. Türklərin göy rəngə üstünlük verməsi ilə bağlı müxtəlif izahlar da mövcuddur. Orta əsrlərdə islam dinində olan türkdilli xalqların yaşadığı ərazilərdə saysız-hesabsız qədim abidələr də tikilib və bu abidələrin əksəriyyəti göy rəngdə olub. Bu baxımdan göy rəng həm də simvolik məna daşıyır. Göy rəng həm də XIII əsrdə Elxanilər dövrünün əzəmətini, onların zəfər yürüşlərini əks etdirir."

The ideals of Turkism are connected to Turkic origins of people of Azerbaijan. There are alot of indications which points to favour of blue color among Turks. During middle-ages countless monuments were built in territorities innhabited by Muslim Turkic peoples and most of them are in blue color. For this very reason the blue color has a symbolic meaning. The blue color also reflects the glory and might of Ilkhanate period.

The first Pan-Turkic ideals were developed within Russian Empire, among Tatars and Azerbaijani Turks. They also contributed to rise of Pan-Turkism in Turkey itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_A%C4%9Fao%C4%9Flu
Ali_bey_Huseynzade Ali_bey_Huseynzade


Among Tatars Yusuf Akcura and Ismail Gasparali can be mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_Ak%C3%A7ura
Ismail_Gasprinski Ismail_Gasprinski

Last edited by Qaraqoyunlu; December 7th, 2012 at 06:05 PM.
Qaraqoyunlu is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #404
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalataTurk View Post
Turkics,like other races had some internal problems and that was for making it clear who will be the kagan/khan of all Turks.This is normal when several tribes claimed the throne.Today,Turkiye is the leading country,such as a Kagan,in Turkic world,despite we are probably the least Turkic in blood among others.We were the only independent Turkic state till collapse of USSR.Thank God others became independent too and we are now 7 states.There are some more places to rescue from captivity.Tataristan,Bashkurtistan,East Turkistan(Uyghurs),Crimean Tatars,South Azerbaijan etc.

Turkic khaganates had their own strategy to weaken Chinese by marrying with their princess so they could claim throne in Chinese dynasty.They would rule Chinese lands as their own wish.Otherwise Chinese were always the biggest enemies of Turks.
LOL you are confusing china with europe. In china and in turkic khaganates, salic law predominates. You cannot claim the throne through female descent. The turkic khagans never tried to claim succession to the chinese throne because even according to their own law they cannot inherit from a mother. By the way, the mongols forced their vassals like the korean kings to marry mongol princesses.

The kirghiz also never asked to marry an imperial princess from china. The kirghiz khagan already claimed to be descended from Li Ling in the male line and not from turkic people. Li Ling married a xiongnu princess and his descendants became the kirghiz khagans, they helped china slaughter thousands of (ancient) uyghurs.

The eastrn gokturk khagans knew that neither chinese nor turkic law allowed for female lineage to take the throne. So when a woman Wu Zetian became emperor, the khagan demanded that she send a prince to marry his daughter so that he could set him up as a puppet ruler after Wu Zetisn died. His plan failed.

Turkic is not a race. The ancient uyghur were mongoloid and ancient kirghiz were caucasoid.

I already keep on explaining why thhe modern uyghurs in the tarim basin are not related to ancient uyghurs. The Yugur people of gansu are descendants of the ancient uyghurs, they are buddhist turkic people like the ancient uyghurs. The modern uyghurs are descended from karluk turks who mixed with tocharians. Before 1921, uyghurs called themselves Turki or by the name of the oasis they came from, not uyghur.

Turkey also has no historical memory of the ancient turkic khaganates like the gokturks. The only reason you know their history and the names of the khagans is because european historians translated ancient gokturks inscriptions and chinese records. It was europeans who deciphered gokturk script, and it was drom europe where nationalism and pan turkism came into the ottoman empire.

It was europeans who called the ottomans turks while the ottomans looked down on turkishness, and it was russians who stole the name uyghur from the yugur people and applied it to the turkic people in the tarim basin. Uyghur nationalist history was written by soviet russian historians as propaganda. The uyghurs has no native tradition of history and did not even know what the uyghur khaganate was before 1921.

All of your false pride comes from the hands of european scholars and chinese historians. And from russian orientalists and soviet ethnologists who made up the connection between the ancient uyghurs and the tarim basin turks out of thin air, manufacturing their own fantasy history.

The original inhabitants of the tarim basin were tocharians and iranic khotanese. The karluks destroyed their civilization, mahmud al kashgari wrote a poem boasting about defecating on buddhas head after the karluk kara khanids conquered the iranic city state of Khotan.

The modern uyghurs are descended from those karluks.

Last edited by deke; December 7th, 2012 at 07:25 PM.
deke is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 06:42 PM   #405
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,034

Galataturks also proclaimed he wants ethnic minorities expelled from turkey while he wants a massive pan turkic state. This is fascist fantasy. If turkey keeps on treating kurds like crap and denies them official language status at state level (and turkic languages are official in all autonomous regions of china where they live), it is turkey who will break up into different countries.

We have turkish sculptors and artists in turkey portraying the gokturks as caucasian while they were mongoloid in reality. Because of this racist attitude, turkey will never gain the cooperation of mongoloid turks like the kazakhs, tuvans or the yugurs if they keep on falsely insisting that their ancestors were caucasian. Turks from turkey are trying to forcefully project their own image on other turks.

Last edited by deke; December 7th, 2012 at 07:52 PM.
deke is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #406

infestĝr's Avatar
Surprise pĝlse!
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Ẍ
Posts: 3,831
Blog Entries: 3

i will give a medal to those for once can argue without doing ad hominem by using the kurdish and armenian issues.
infestĝr is offline  
Old December 8th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #407
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by infestĝr View Post
i will give a medal to those for once can argue without doing ad hominem by using the kurdish and armenian issues.
Give that to me as I can do that very readily.
avantivarman is offline  
Old December 8th, 2012, 06:57 AM   #408

antocya's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Iraq
Posts: 3,934

It's a relevant issue when discussing a theoretical pan-Turkic state.
antocya is online now  
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #409

Dreamhunter's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Malaysia
Posts: 2,729
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantivarman View Post
do not get me wrong but do you think turkish people can " liberate " people of xinjiang.

for any realist it is and will always be only a dream.
There are the wishes of the Xin Jiang people, and then there are the wishes of the rest of the world. The odds are of course immensely against them right now, but if the rest of the world support the wishes of the Xin Jiang people, that isn't impossible. Palestine has just recently shown the way, hasn't it?
Dreamhunter is offline  
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #410
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
There are the wishes of the Xin Jiang people, and then there are the wishes of the rest of the world. The odds are of course immensely against them right now, but if the rest of the world support the wishes of the Xin Jiang people, that isn't impossible. Palestine has just recently shown the way, hasn't it?
yes, if rest of the world supports them, they can think of such things.

what i know ( not as much you certainly ) is that they have not got any support till today not even turkish president speaks for them .
avantivarman is offline  
Closed Thread

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
economy, fact of future, fantasy, panturkism, romantic, strong turkic union, utopia


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thomas More, Utopia avon Historum Book Discussion 19 April 1st, 2010 06:36 PM
Utopia, a list of (additions & corrections welcome) Pedro Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 4 October 1st, 2009 02:23 AM
Utopia tedkaw History Book Reviews 2 October 27th, 2006 09:51 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.