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View Poll Results: Greatest Tokugawa Shogun?
Hidetada 1 14.29%
Iemitsu 4 57.14%
Ietsuna 0 0%
Tsunayoshi 0 0%
Yoshimune 2 28.57%
Ieshige 0 0%
Ienari 0 0%
Ieyoshi 0 0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 5th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #11

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I prefer Iyeyasu , Iyemitsu and Tsunayoshi.

Iyeyasu ----- stable and peaceful Japan

Iyemitsu-------- Chased away the Europeans and stopped the spread of Christianity and gave a strong base for the authority of Tokugawas.

Tsunayoshi ---------- favored trade and commercial activities
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Old January 5th, 2012, 03:38 AM   #12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labienus View Post
I voted for Iemitsu. I would have of course chosen Ieyasu if he had not been omitted but Iemitsu seems to have been pretty decent to me. The Sakoku Edict of 1635 that he issued was very important to halt the influence the Europeans in Japan, to say the least.

On the long run, the policy of seclusion proved to be a failure as Japan had become backward compared to the outside world by the 19th century but during Iemitsu's time, it was used to cement his own position to great effect.

That is not the case. The seclusion policy made the Europeans to long to set at least their foot in Japan. See India and China they welcomed the Europeans and they thought Europeans are just interested in doing business. The princely states failed to understand the ulterior motives of the Europeans were as the Tokugawas did. When they realized that are lagging behind when the opened the huge seclusion tori gates after Meiji revolution, they started improving and competing with the other developed nations of the world.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #13

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I've voted for Hidetada, first because in virtual reconstructions of the battle of Sekigahara I usually take his identity [I like to play hard], second because I'm with the "black duck" of the family.

I can count at least two main occasions when Hidetada wasn't in agreement with his father: Sekigahara [where he arrived late, ok, but more because of the strategy of the Sanada than because of his fault ... to say all it was his father's fault to order that conduct to the son] and of course Osaka where the difference of perspective between the two guys was absolute.

To be Shogun in that context was not that easy and I feel he played well his cards.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:30 AM   #14

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1991sudarshan View Post
That is not the case. The seclusion policy made the Europeans to long to set at least their foot in Japan. See India and China they welcomed the Europeans and they thought Europeans are just interested in doing business. The princely states failed to understand the ulterior motives of the Europeans were as the Tokugawas did. When they realized that are lagging behind when the opened the huge seclusion tori gates after Meiji revolution, they started improving and competing with the other developed nations of the world.
I stand corrected
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Old January 13th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #15

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Ahh man. I'm sorry guys. I kinda disappeared after starting this thread. The baby is making my computer time very inconsistent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
Mmm hmm, well, the Edo period is (currently) outside my sphere of knowledge, and I'm only really familiar with Hidetada and Iemitsu, which wouldn't make it a fair vote.

Can I vote for Matsudaira Motoyasu?

This is an interesting idea for a thread though. Shall we expand it to the greatest shogun/shikken? It would help further people's knowledge of Japanese history in (great barbarian subduing) general.
That does sound like a good idea. Maybe we can even bump the old Bakufu thread up. I think there are some newer members here that may have something to add to that.

For example, this guy:


Quote:
Originally Posted by M.E.T.H.O.D. View Post
I'm not an expert of the Tokugawa shogunate, but I like Yoshimune's progressist mind and his attitude towards the Western world, he also seems to me a fairly good administrator.
That's my choice as well. I might even be able to put up a good argument for him even if Ieyasu were to be included. He tried his darndest to improve Japan's economy, and even succeeded for a time. Something that I don't think anyone else could have done given the inherent obstacles involved. He was also a great patron of the arts and education. That definitely gets some brownie points from me.
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