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Old February 24th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #51
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I wonder how effective this was. It looks like a big target for fire arrows, and I would imagine that a lot of men and horses had to pull this around, making them vulnerable.
This was not used for battles. It was only used for reconnoitre.

Most ancient siege weapons were vulnerable to flaming arrows, since most of them were made of wood.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #52

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This was not used for battles. It was only used for reconnoitre.

Most ancient siege weapons were vulnerable to flaming arrows, since most of them were made of wood.
Yes, I realize that, nevertheless my point is that something so big and so slow would not be effective in reconoicence.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #53
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Yes, I realize that, nevertheless my point is that something so big and so slow would not be effective in reconoicence.
It did not rely on its speed for reconnaissance, in fact, it relied on its height. The soldiers would hide inside that small cabin and a pulley would pull the cabin to the top of the wooden poles, thus they could see what was happening inside enemy cities.

There was probably a psychological factor as well. When the enemy soldiers saw something this tall and this big, it would certainly intimidate them.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 07:27 AM   #54

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Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post
It did not rely on its speed for reconnaissance, in fact, it relied on its height. The soldiers would hide inside that small cabin and a pulley would pull the cabin to the top of the wooden poles, thus they could see what was happening inside enemy cities.

There was probably a psychological factor as well. When the enemy soldiers saw something this tall and this big, it would certainly intimidate them.
I don't think you would put this anywhere too close to missile fire. It would not have to be close to still get a good view of the battle or see over or on the walls.
I doubt it would intimidate folks very much either. Balloons did this same job in the modern age.They worked well or the time spent to move, build and protect the device would not have been worth it and we would not have a book with its directions for use. Make sense?
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Old February 25th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #55
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I don't think you would put this anywhere too close to missile fire. It would not have to be close to still get a good view of the battle or see over or on the walls.
I doubt it would intimidate folks very much either. Balloons did this same job in the modern age.They worked well or the time spent to move, build and protect the device would not have been worth it and we would not have a book with its directions for use. Make sense?
I never said that this device was intended to get close to the walls. It was not intended for battles, it was only used for reconnoitre. You don't have to get too close for reconnaissance.

If you compare it to modern day hot-air balloons or planes, then of course it's outdated and slow. However, keep in mind that this was used more than a thousand years ago, and they didn't have more efficient devices for reconnaissance back then.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #56
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Siege rockets were commonly used by the armies of Ming Dynasty. The most famous one was called "Nest of Bees". It could launch 32 rocket-propelled arrows at the same time.

The "Rampaging Leopards" was a bigger version of the Nest of Bees, and it could launch 40 rocket-propelled arrows simultaneously.

The picture above is the Nest of Bees, and the picture below is the Rampaging Leopards.

The picture of the Rampaging Leopards came from the Ming Dynasty military manual Wu Bei Zhi.

I just want to add that the Nest of Bees and the Rampaging Leopards were the names of those rockets; they were not animals.

Those volley rockets were not intended for battles in tight areas such as forests or cities. In order for them to be effective, they have to be used in open areas such as plains or grasslands. The range of those rocket arrows was about 300 to 500 metres.

The Ming army deployed this kind of rockets in their northern frontier. When the Mongol cavalry and infantry charged the Ming army in formations, the Ming soldiers would ignite those rocket launchers, and dozens of rocket-propelled arrows would hurtle towards the Mongols.

Last edited by purakjelia; February 25th, 2012 at 09:26 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #57

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Quote:
I wonder how effective this was. It looks like a big target for fire arrows, and I would imagine that a lot of men and horses had to pull this around, making them vulnerable.
The cart was probably used out of the defender's effective range. It only needs to be close enough for people within the cart to see inside the city. Mozi of the Warring States gave a counter to the overlook cart by advising the use of "interconnected crossbow cart" (a ballista). This implies overlook carts were used far enough to be out of range for hand-bows and crossbows, but a giant room-sized crossbow with a windlass could still reach it.


Quote:
This kind of reconnoitre cart probably appeared during Tang Dynasty.
As in my above statement, Mozi mentioned it. So the overlook cart probably came into use by at least his time period (~500-400 BC).
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Old July 20th, 2012, 06:05 AM   #58
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This was probably the best thread that I've posted, however, only a few people replied to this thread. It's really discouraging.

From now on, I will continue to post the images of ancient Chinese siege weapons in here.

I hope that this thread could help those people who want to learn more about ancient Chinese weapons.

Last edited by purakjelia; July 20th, 2012 at 07:25 AM.
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Old July 20th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #59
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This is a picture of an ancient Chinese traction catapult.

Click the image to open in full size.


Traction catapults appeared in ancient China probably around the Warring States period; they were used by the Mohists as early as 5th century BCE and the Mohists recorded the use of catapults in their Mojing, which was compiled around 4th century BCE. Catapults continued to be used up to the medieval Tang and Sung dynasties. They were finally replaced by counterweight trebuchets and early firearms during the Mongol Yuan Dynasty.

As the picture above have shown, the ancient Chinese traction catapult consisted of a four-footed wooden frame and a throwing arm mounted on top of that frame. The wooden frame stood anywhere between double to four times the height of a person. Its design was based on the lever principle. A rock would be placed inside the leather pouch on one side of the throwing arm, and a group of soldiers would pull the rope strings on the other side of the throwing arm so that the rock could be lifted and thrown. The largest traction catapult required a hundred soldiers to operate. Sometimes the traction catapult was fixed on a four-wheeled cart so that it became a mobile catapult. During the Sung Dynasty, primitive gunpowder projectiles began to appear on the battlefield, and the ancient Chinese also used their traction catapult to throw those early gunpowder bombs.
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Old July 20th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #60
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Here is a mobile version of the ancient Chinese traction catapult, mounted on a four-wheeled cart.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by purakjelia; July 20th, 2012 at 08:06 AM.
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