Panthera tigris altaica

Edit: I missed up the title a bit. It should have read, "The internal fall of civilian governance in Imperial Japan"

Or in other words, the effects of it was thoroughly catastrophic!

I am interested if anyone has ever discussed in further detail the rise of Japanese militarists within the Imperial government (primarily the Army) in the 1930's? It is alleged to had been brought about or justified by it's fanatical supporters for Japan's uncontrolled Manchurian expansion, which i wish to further note, appears to have coincided with the near complete fall not much later of their civilian counterparts in government by the time of Pearl Harbor in 41' culminating with the Pacific war? In my opinion, this was a very catastrophic scenario that needs to be further explored given the current situation that is now developing the Asia-Pacific region.

Briefly noted by 1944, civilian governance was making some what of a belated come back after the fall of Tojo, thanks in part to the much less fanatical members within the Japanese military, primarily the IJN. But by then it was very much so, way too late to reverse the events set in motion by militarist policies that saw the dual tragic atomic bombings in that August summer of 45.

The source for this thread comes from my readings of John Toland's "Rising Sun" and now William Craig's the "Fall of Japan".

Panthera tigris altaica

Are there no interests in the complexities of the Imperial Japanese government for the period of 1935-1945? I'm a little surprised.

mingming

I don't know enough about the subject to make much of a contribution. But from what my East Asian History professor said, the civilian government of the Taisho and early Showa periods failed to defend Japanese interests internationally and handled a lot of domestic issues poorly, making it lose support of the army, the zaibatsu, and the people.

Panthera tigris altaica

Ah, yes but how or why did they think the civilian government failed? By what right did the military think they could bring about a different outcome that others hadn't already explored or tried, by assuming the reigns of government themselves? By their assumptions alone they brought about the very destructive outcome they most desired too fend off.

Ad the zaibatsu, i realize how much businesses and corporations are in disfavor now while conspiracies seem to be in favor academically, but i don't think they really played such a part that pushed Japan into the position that it found itself in during that period, like the way Japanese history and the military could do.

Larrey

Afaik there was a kind of structural weakness in the way the Japense constitution was set, specifically that the Army and Navy representatives regardless of civilian politics, parliament and government, always had a direct route to the Emperor, and on the condition of getting his blessing could set politics for themselves. At some point they would be willing to try to use this. But you're asking why the 1930's and not before?

Well, not entirely clear to me either. Otoh the military was a political entity to itself, and the top brass was being pushed by new, young hardliners from below. Also, the military had been relatively impopular in the 1920's, after getting itself stuck in Sibiria in the aftermath of the Russian revolution, and somehow had decided not to rock the boat through the 1920's Japanese parliamentary democracy. Then rouge young radical officers started killing key civilian politicians in the early 30's to pull the country in their kind of militaristic direction, and succeeded...

And I think you're right that the Japanese business community wasn't too happy with the military way. They were keenly aware of Japan's import dependencies. The military however were swearing that they would pull it off, and keep providing the Japanese industry with whatever it needed their way. So, with a certain lack of other options, Japanese enterprise sort of went along, not that they had that much to pit against the military. AFTER WWII however it was largely the business elite that got a shot at deciding how Japan would play politics, and set up the "Japan Inc." phenomenon afaik.

pablo668

Reading John Tolands book atm. Very interesting.
So far the movements put forward in this thread are correct.

I don't think the people of Japan had much of a say one way or the other though. Those in power or close enough to it set the tone, the people just went along as good Japanese do.
And yeah, political assassination was the order of the day, with the occasional riot/revolution.

Pythagoras

I second that.

Panthera tigris altaica

That is a very interesting comment. I don't recall if it was Toland himself who said this, but there was this rebirth for past heroic traditions, primarily centered around the Samurai and the code of Bushido. One tale most historians are or should be acquainted with is the the 47 Ronin Kind of says a lot i think and yet needs to be further explored to better understand why the military constantly felt they had this fundamental right to meddle in the sphere of government.

Yes, that is my impression as well. Further, it seems the military made so may promises it couldn't keep and when confronted with a reality, were very contemptuous of those with a contrary view. Even the Emperor himself was hamstrung in curbing the growth and power of his military.

Panthera tigris altaica

What i always found strange about this was that these revolts and assassinations, being carried out by lower ranking officers, weren't adequately admonished for the deeds they had done. In fact, it seems they were largely admired for the spirit that went in to them. Higher ranking Generals, Admirals and even field Marshall's weren't safe from a lower ranking officer assassin's bullet or a chop and a slice from the katana. Even at the close of the war, the Emperor himself, while not ever physically threatened, faced a revolt and house imprisonment, against his direct wishes, the Kyujo incident

mingming

The London and Washington Naval Conferences, in which Japan was allowed less tonnage of warships compared to America and Britain. And also the Japanese exclusion act of the US. Japanese felt they weren't being respected on the world stage.