Toyotomi Clan Descendants - Page 2 - Historum

**Naomasa298** · May 9th, 2012, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991sudarshan

It is obvious. Hideyori and his mother stayed in Osaka castle and Iyeyasu hear that Hideyori is building an army.Iyeyasu waged a mini war and Hideyori's castle fell and the PBS documentary said that Iyeyasu killed every body who stayed along with Hideyori in the Osaka castle . Since Iyeyasu had respect for Hideyoshi, he asked Hideyori and his mother to commit seppuku. Later he grieved for asking Hideyori to commit seppuku and He wrote buddha's name ten thousand time for repenting his mistake.

Obviously, his grief was not enough to stop him cutting off Hideyori's seven year old son's head.

Nene was not Hideyori's mother.

**Naomasa298** · May 9th, 2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingming

Why was Hideyoshi's wife O-Ne (Nene) so respected by Ieyasu?

It seems both Nobunaga and Ieyasu were quite enamoured her, and respected her beauty and intelligence. She certainly seems to have acted as a advisor to Hideyoshi. She actually sided with Ieyasu in the Sekigahara campaign - I personally suspect that might have had something to do the fact that Hideyori was not her son.

The fictional portrayal that I've seen of her (from the taiga drama Komyo ga Tsuji) depicts her as a woman who stuck with Hideyoshi from the very beginning, through thick and through thin, and who acted as his moral support as well as giving him some very good advice - although I'll admit I spent most of the time ogling Nakama Yukie.

koala · May 9th, 2012, 12:46 AM

The wiki link said to us Hideyoshi has a lot of stepsons. What matters?

In fact, he likely had many women for him but how did YodoKimi only bore a child of so aged man?

How many times did Iyeyas and Hideyoshi changes their surnames? In Japan, I wonder what is the rule taking their surnames. I heard Japaneses take his mother's(???) and his father-in-law's.

**Naomasa298** · May 9th, 2012, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koala

The wiki link said to us Hideyoshi has a lot of stepsons. What matters? How many times did Iyeyas and Hideyoshi changes their surnames? In Japan, I wonder what is the rule taking their surnames. I heard Japanese take his mother(???) and his father-in-law.

As Hideyoshi was originally a peasant, he did not have a surname. He was initially known as Kinoshita Tokichiro. He then became known as Hashiba Hideyoshi, and finally Toyotomi Hideyoshi.

As for Ieyasu, he was born into the Matsudaira family, and later changed his surname to Tokugawa. His given named changed from Motonobu to Motoyasu and finally Ieyasu.

Samurai would have taken their father's clan name. They were, however, often adopted into other clans and from time to time changed their surnames to something more prestigious.

**mingming** · May 9th, 2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naomasa298

It seems both Nobunaga and Ieyasu were quite enamoured her, and respected her beauty and intelligence. She certainly seems to have acted as a advisor to Hideyoshi. She actually sided with Ieyasu in the Sekigahara campaign - I personally suspect that might have had something to do the fact that Hideyori was not her son.

The fictional portrayal that I've seen of her (from the taiga drama Komyo ga Tsuji) depicts her as a woman who stuck with Hideyoshi from the very beginning, through thick and through thin, and who acted as his moral support as well as giving him some very good advice - although I'll admit I spent most of the time ogling Nakama Yukie.

That sounds like an interesting drama. I'll probably watch it after I finish watching Gou.

Kuroda Kanbei · May 9th, 2012, 01:39 PM

Even the normally less then tactfull Nobunaga seemed to have nothing but praise for Nene, there's still a letter he wrote to her regarding Hideyoshi's treatment of her.

It went something like this.
''...It has been quite sometime since I last saw you, but your beauty grows day by day. Tokichiro (Hideyoshi) complains about you constantly and it is outrageous. While that "bald rat" (Hideyoshi) flusters to find another good woman, you remain lofty and elegant. Do not be envious. Show Hideyoshi this letter...

**mingming** · May 9th, 2012, 08:31 PM

This is what the Wiki said:

"Father and son once again disagreed on how to conduct this campaign against the recalcitrant Toyotomi forces in Osaka. Ieyasu favored a conservative approach while Hidetada preferred a direct, all-out assault. Hidetada prevailed; in the ensuing siege Hideyori and his mother were forced to commit suicide. Even Hideyori's infant son (Kunimatsu), grandson of Hidetada, was not spared. Ieyasu never forgave Hidetada for this loss."

Is this accurate?