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Old August 28th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #11

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Originally Posted by Lecen View Post
I was not rude to him. If that's how he saw it, it's not my fault.
That's not just how he saw it, that's how we all saw it.

Anyway, it's an interesting thread. I am surprised that someone could trace his ancestors back to 1,000+ years.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Pythagoras View Post
That's not just how he saw it, that's how we all saw it.

Anyway, it's an interesting thread. I am surprised that someone could trace his ancestors back to 1,000+ years.
I think the Guiness record holder for the longest family tree is also a Chinese who claim descend from Confucius and have a pedigree back to more than 2500 years. It can be a rarity though i guess, i wonder how far an "average" Chinese can trace back family tree.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #13

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Originally Posted by Tulun View Post
I think the Guiness record holder for the longest family tree is also a Chinese who claim descend from Confucius and have a pedigree back to more than 2500 years. It can be a rarity though i guess, i wonder how far an "average" Chinese can trace back family tree.
Wow, that's interesting! I know for sure that the Japanese Emperor can trace his ancestors back to many generations (the legend says back to 660 BC, but I guess sometime around the first centuries AD might be more accurate, as the first Japanese Emperors were semi-mythological.)
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #14
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The truth is that most modernday Chinese could only trace their ancestry back several decades. Most Chinese genealogical records had been destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. And also, Chinese are skilled at making fake genealogical records which link them to famous historical figures. Thus, their claims about the descendants of famous emperors or famous historical figures are not necessarily true.

Last edited by purakjelia; August 28th, 2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #15

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china have one thing that named as genealogy. : )
at another hand, I can't understand the OP refused to believe surname tree, In fact, many dynasties offspring maybe can't clearly get all family name detail, but use surname tree,
we can get a general line.

kong family's offspring is the 77-80th generation today, the 77th generation is kong decheng, who live in taiwan nowdays, the 80 th generation is kong youren.

kong family have almost all detail about successor's name in 2500 years.

I guess that what Jake10 said is the song dynasty's offspring too, because the song dynasty's offspring are the most in today.

Last edited by fangqingming; August 29th, 2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #16
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Genology records depends. some trace it further than others, those that claim decedents of really famous people though should be looked upon with skeptisim usually. (unless it's a relatively modern one.)

My family's record... hmmm i don't have it, I think my Grandpa before he died went back to China to look for it but I'm not sure if he ever found it (if he did it's probably in my uncle's hand anyway.) though the story is that we can trace our linage to a fairly high ranking late Qing official from northern China, who later retired to northern JianSu province and his decedent became land owners there. that sound pretty plausible. given that my great grandfather was clearly a fairly well off local landlord (which was why most of his family outside of my Grandfather was killed.)
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Hansaram View Post
The Qing weren't really pretending to be anything they are not. They knew they were Manchu and practiced racial segregation from the rest of the Chinese population.
If you don't know the meaning of the term "pretender" then you shouldn't "pretend" to know. joke.

Pretender does not mean to fake. A "pretender" is the heir and descendant of a prefious dynasty which was overthrown, regardless of whether they actively seek to restore themselves to the throne or not.

For example, the current Bourbon pretender to the French throne is Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou. he is not faking or pretending to be anything, he is just next in line to the french monarchy should it be restored
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:31 PM   #18
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Why are people talking about families changing surnames? The Mongol yuan dynast spares the Song royal family and allowed them to live in peace. they continued to use the surname "zhao", and never changed it, one Song descendant painted for the Mongol emperor.

Same with the Ming descendants, the Qing emperors gave one of the ming descendants a hereditary title (what british people call peerage) as marquis and his descendants continued the line.

Contrary to what some of you may have read on CHF, neither the mongols nor manchus massacred the entire song or ming royal family, only the former emperors were killed. Throughout all of chinese history, it was customary for the succeeding dynasty to give the family of the former dynasty they overthrew an aristocratic title and fiefdom. Cao wei did it for the han imperial family, the zhou dynasty did it for the shang, and so on.

Both the Song and Ming families continued to exist today.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 10:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mingming View Post
I take it he's related to the Song house. A lot of them changed their family name during the Yuan and changed it back during the Ming.
I don't really know for sure but my family is probably descended from Song Dynasty my great great grandparent's surnames are all Zhao,also apparently my grandparents built a big temple/throne with a big sign saying 廟家氏赵 which means Temple of Zhao's and on the walls hung pictures and info of all the emperors from Song Dynasty and and my ancestors names.My grandparents are very religious and stuff...
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Old August 12th, 2017, 09:10 PM   #20
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There is a book by John Chaffee Branches of Heaven: a History of the Imperial Clan of Sung China that is about the Imperial family of the Sung Dynasty.


As I remember, at one place it says that when written there were 21 different lineages in China and/or the USA, etc., tracing their descent from either the first Sung emperor, or his brother the second Sung emperor or their brother who never got to be emperor. Some of those lineages might also trace their descent from a few other emperors. But unlike dynasties like the Tang or the Ming where the descent was mostly from father to son, most of the Sung emperors had only a few previous emperors in their direct ancestry.

The Sung Dynasty was followed by the Yuan Dynasty who were also Mongol Khans of Khans. They were driven out of China by the new Ming Dynasty in 1368 but continued to be the Mongol Kakhans until the defeat of Ligdan Khutugtu Khan (1588-1634). It is quite probable that there are male line descendants of a close relative of Ligdan Khan, and of course the Mongolian noble families would all be descended from the Kakhans in female lines of descent due to intermarriage.

The next great Chinese dynasty was the Ming (1368-1644). During the Qing dynasty and for a few decades in the 20th century there was a line of ennobled Ming descendants with the task of performing sacrifices to the Ming ancestors.

The Qing Dynasty ruled from 1644-1912. The current pretender is Jin Yuzhang (born 1942). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Yuzhang

Thus it seems probable that descendants can be traced for the last four major Chinese dynasties that ruled from 960 to 1912.

There are also possible descents from much earlier Dynasties.

There is an alleged descent of Queen Elizabeth II from the Tang dynasty through a number of females. Some links are considered dubious.


British Royal Family Genealogy - Page 5 - The Royal Forums

Royals - Ancestral Memories*

See post 72 here:

The Queen's ancestor?

There are 1,346,510 Chinese-Canadians (4 percent). A succession of imperial dynasties ruled China until 1911. The genealogist David Hughes proposed descents for our Royal Family from the Han (206 BC-AD 220), Northern Wei (386-535), Tang (618-907) and Second Zhou (690-705) dynasties. The descent from the Han and Northern Wei runs through the chiefs of the Göktürks (a Central Asian people) and kings of Persia to the Exilarchs (heads of the Jews of Babylon), and then accepts a (now-discredited) identification of the Queen’s ancestor Theuderic of Narbonne with the Exilarch Makhir (see below). The descent from the Tang and Second Zhou comes through the rulers of the Yenisei Kyrgyz of Siberia and the Mongol emperor Genghis Khan (died 1227). As will be seen below, Queen Mary may have been descended from Genghis Khan.
Canadian Royal Heritage Trust A Royal Reflection of the Canadian Mosaic (18 Oct. 2015) | Canadian Royal Heritage Trust

And see posts 9, 11, and 13 in this thread:

heirs of overthrown dynasties regaining the throne
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