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Old November 25th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #261

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I think there is no doubt that they "switched", the qustion is simply did they do so from dravidian, a related to dravidian language or an unknown language


I think the samples are ok, but I don't know if they are representative for all indians and dravidians.
This table is quite confusing

Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asian populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old November 25th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #262

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Make a map for yourself
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Old November 27th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #263
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the people who live today in the Indus valley today are probably the people who are in total genetically the closest related people to the IVC people. Linguistically Tamils could be closer related, but only if the IVC language was belonging to dravidian. I would suppose, that if relations to dravidian will be confirmed one day, than the IVC language will just have the same linguistic ancestors as the dravidians. so it would be not a close relation.
The language spoken by IVC people was Pragirit Tamil only. Till the end of 18th century A.D, it was believed that The IVC belongs to Aryans. During 1920s Archeologist John Marshall excavated Harappa & mohanjedora and stated that this civilisation is belongs to Dravidians. The same is also acknowledged by Father Heeras who also was an archaeologist.

Even today in Tamil Language, the words UR,Puri and Kottai and patti is refers to village or town or city. The comprising of this three words you can see in northern india towns even today. I give some examples

sukUR, lahore, Siyalkott, kanpur, solapur, panipet,pattinda, sulthanpet,Kuruthaspur etc.

The words UR, PUR, PATTI, and Kottai are the pure tamil words only. In the same way , when few linguistic scholars decipered the Indus Script they found more than hundred Tamil names such as Anangan, Kaavachan, Athan, Annan, Amban, Anganan, Kathan, Koothan etc etc etc etc.

When we research an old civilisation , the name of the people,the name of the town and the languages spoken in nearby places should be taken into consideration. Then only we can come to a correct conclusion . When this paramametres is carefully taken care of the Existence of Tamil and dravidian is proved. Secondly in IVC there is a symbol of swastik. This symbol denotes the "OM" and the origin of this word is Tamil.

By keeping aside tamil, only assumptions is going continue in the IVC Subject.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
The language spoken by IVC people was Pragirit Tamil only. Till the end of 18th century A.D, it was believed that The IVC belongs to Aryans. During 1920s Archeologist John Marshall excavated Harappa & mohanjedora and stated that this civilisation is belongs to Dravidians. The same is also acknowledged by Father Heeras who also was an archaeologist.
18th century and IVC? Ouch!

The first indications that there was anything like the IVC came only in the mid 19th century, when Harappa was first described by Charles Masson in 1842, though he didn't go into any detail. Cunningham described the first Harappan seal in 1875, and full excavation would have to wait until the Marshall expedition in 1920.

Quote:
Even today in Tamil Language, the words UR,Puri and Kottai and patti is refers to village or town or city. The comprising of this three words you can see in northern india towns even today. I give some examples

sukUR, lahore, Siyalkott, kanpur, solapur, panipet,pattinda, sulthanpet,Kuruthaspur etc.

The words UR, PUR, PATTI, and Kottai are the pure tamil words only.
Why could some or all of those not be of Aryan origin? Are you sure that your proposed etymology is correct? You have to substantiate any etymology of this sort.

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In the same way , when few linguistic scholars decipered the Indus Script they found more than hundred Tamil names such as Anangan, Kaavachan, Athan, Annan, Amban, Anganan, Kathan, Koothan etc etc etc etc.
There are competing decipherments of the Indus script, based on both Aryan and Dravidian linguistics. Even Iravatham Mahadevan, who's one of the big proposers of the Dravidian hypothesis, says that we need to await further work before we can really say for certain that any one decipherment is correct. There's no point in just asserting the same things again and again and again.

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When we research an old civilisation , the name of the people,the name of the town and the languages spoken in nearby places should be taken into consideration. Then only we can come to a correct conclusion .
For which we need a clear decipherment of their script. See above.

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When this paramametres is carefully taken care of the Existence of Tamil and dravidian is proved. Secondly in IVC there is a symbol of swastik. This symbol denotes the "OM" and the origin of this word is Tamil.
This is another interesting assertion; first, how do you say that the Swastik means "Om", and second, how do you assert that the word is Tamil in origin? And third, even granted those two, how do you know that the symbol meant the same thing to the IVC people? You need to substantiate statements like this.

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By keeping aside tamil, only assumptions is going continue in the IVC Subject.
I hope you understand, nobody is "keeping tamil aside". One of the most heavily researched theories is the Dravidian origin of the IVC. Another is the Indo-Aryan origin. The evidence isn't really great for either side yet (though I personally think the Dravidian hypothesis has a slightly higher confidence level - others may believe differently).
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Old November 28th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #265

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The dravidian thesis is more probable. than the indo-aryan thesis. I have here no doubt about it. But that isn't automatically verifying the dravidian thesis.

As I said above, the culture developed 5000 years ago and ended 3000 years ago. Nobody can say whether Dravidian or even tamil existed in that days. And even if and if there are similarities between the IVC and Dravidian, then both can only share the same linguistic ancestor.

Till now, no thesis is proven right.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 05:15 AM   #266
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The dravidian thesis is more probable. than the indo-aryan thesis. I have here no doubt about it. But that isn't automatically verifying the dravidian thesis.

As I said above, the culture developed 5000 years ago and ended 3000 years ago. Nobody can say whether Dravidian or even tamil existed in that days. And even if and if there are similarities between the IVC and Dravidian, then both can only share the same linguistic ancestor.

Till now, no thesis is proven right.
in this subject let me give you some interesting fact (which everybody thinks that this is wrong, where there is substantial proof is available in Tamil Literature and The Bible) that according to world history IVC is the first and oldest civilisation of the world. But before IVC there existed a well advanced civilisation in Kumarikandam a sunken continent in the southern tip of India. The existense of Kumarikandam and subsequent three deluge which made the kumarikandam sunk in the ocean are mentioned in the Sangam tamil literatures. When the land sunk due to deluge people migrated from south to north and they settled in Indus(I civilisation). Later, , few moved to west from east and settled in Sinneyar (sumerian civilisation ) and then egyptian (nile)

From Bible you can see the same lineage .a) Kumarikandam: the creation of mankind, b)great flood, c)Noa escapes from the deluge, 4) please read Genesis chapter 11 verses 1-3 " And the whole earth was of ONE language, and of ONE speech.And it came to pass, as they journeyed FROM THE EAST TO WEST they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt in.And they said one another, Go to,let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had BRICK for Stone

From the above, Bible says about that on those days there was a single language existed and it is Tamil only, and no other language in the world claim that. Second Bible says that people moved from east to west. i.e. After Noah escapes from deluge (first deluge in approximately in 8000 B.C)
he built a ship to flee from Kumarikandam and settled in Indus. From Indus(which is located at east) they moved to west (sumeria is in west side of Indus)
They found a plain - they would have passed the mountains then saw a
plain land of shinar

let us make brick - making brick was familiar for them, because IVC was
the first civilisation and they used bricks for
construction. In kumarikandam stone was mainly
used for construction.

The names mentioned in Bible Genesis,are very closer to Tamil names and I give some examples

Adam - Athan in Tamil
Eve - Awwai in Tamil
kain - Khan
Nova - Naavai means ship in tamil

More examples also can be given.

Unfortunately,as the worlds renowned linguistic scholars like Max muller do not know the antiquity and richness of tamil literature they came to the conclusion is that "SANSKRIT" is the oldest language and it has come from Indo - european family of languages. Till his last days he was not aware of Tamil language

But the fact is, Tamil is the first and mother of all languages and Tamil has more root words for all the languages of the world.

For kumarikandam please read Riddles of the three oceans (Alexander Kondrathow)
Underworld (Graham vanhock)
Tamil literature Tholkapiam,paripadal,nattrinai etc

For Tamil Antiquity Please read Sollayvu(research Book), and books written by
Thevaneya paavanar, sathur sekaran, Iravatham
Mahadevan

Last edited by unmai53; November 28th, 2012 at 05:21 AM.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 06:00 AM   #267

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Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
in this subject let me give you some interesting fact (which everybody thinks that this is wrong, where there is substantial proof is available in Tamil Literature and The Bible) that according to world history IVC is the first and oldest civilisation of the world. But before IVC there existed a well advanced civilisation in Kumarikandam a sunken continent in the southern tip of India. The existense of Kumarikandam and subsequent three deluge which made the kumarikandam sunk in the ocean are mentioned in the Sangam tamil literatures. When the land sunk due to deluge people migrated from south to north and they settled in Indus(I civilisation). Later, , few moved to west from east and settled in Sinneyar (sumerian civilisation ) and then egyptian (nile)

From Bible you can see the same lineage .a) Kumarikandam: the creation of mankind, b)great flood, c)Noa escapes from the deluge, 4) please read Genesis chapter 11 verses 1-3 " And the whole earth was of ONE language, and of ONE speech.And it came to pass, as they journeyed FROM THE EAST TO WEST they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt in.And they said one another, Go to,let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had BRICK for Stone

From the above, Bible says about that on those days there was a single language existed and it is Tamil only, and no other language in the world claim that. Second Bible says that people moved from east to west. i.e. After Noah escapes from deluge (first deluge in approximately in 8000 B.C)
he built a ship to flee from Kumarikandam and settled in Indus. From Indus(which is located at east) they moved to west (sumeria is in west side of Indus)
They found a plain - they would have passed the mountains then saw a
plain land of shinar

let us make brick - making brick was familiar for them, because IVC was
the first civilisation and they used bricks for
construction. In kumarikandam stone was mainly
used for construction.

The names mentioned in Bible Genesis,are very closer to Tamil names and I give some examples

Adam - Athan in Tamil
Eve - Awwai in Tamil
kain - Khan
Nova - Naavai means ship in tamil

More examples also can be given.

Unfortunately,as the worlds renowned linguistic scholars like Max muller do not know the antiquity and richness of tamil literature they came to the conclusion is that "SANSKRIT" is the oldest language and it has come from Indo - european family of languages. Till his last days he was not aware of Tamil language

But the fact is, Tamil is the first and mother of all languages and Tamil has more root words for all the languages of the world.

For kumarikandam please read Riddles of the three oceans (Alexander Kondrathow)
Underworld (Graham vanhock)
Tamil literature Tholkapiam,paripadal,nattrinai etc

For Tamil Antiquity Please read Sollayvu(research Book), and books written by
Thevaneya paavanar, sathur sekaran, Iravatham
Mahadevan
There you go again. No scholar will waste his/her time by going through this pseudo-theory.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
in this subject let me give you some interesting fact (which everybody thinks that this is wrong, where there is substantial proof is available in Tamil Literature and The Bible) that according to world history IVC is the first and oldest civilisation of the world. But before IVC there existed a well advanced civilisation in Kumarikandam a sunken continent in the southern tip of India. The existense of Kumarikandam and subsequent three deluge which made the kumarikandam sunk in the ocean are mentioned in the Sangam tamil literatures. When the land sunk due to deluge people migrated from south to north and they settled in Indus(I civilisation). Later, , few moved to west from east and settled in Sinneyar (sumerian civilisation ) and then egyptian (nile)

From Bible you can see the same lineage .a) Kumarikandam: the creation of mankind, b)great flood, c)Noa escapes from the deluge, 4) please read Genesis chapter 11 verses 1-3 " And the whole earth was of ONE language, and of ONE speech.And it came to pass, as they journeyed FROM THE EAST TO WEST they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt in.And they said one another, Go to,let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had BRICK for Stone

From the above, Bible says about that on those days there was a single language existed and it is Tamil only, and no other language in the world claim that. Second Bible says that people moved from east to west. i.e. After Noah escapes from deluge (first deluge in approximately in 8000 B.C)
he built a ship to flee from Kumarikandam and settled in Indus. From Indus(which is located at east) they moved to west (sumeria is in west side of Indus)
They found a plain - they would have passed the mountains then saw a
plain land of shinar

let us make brick - making brick was familiar for them, because IVC was
the first civilisation and they used bricks for
construction. In kumarikandam stone was mainly
used for construction.

The names mentioned in Bible Genesis,are very closer to Tamil names and I give some examples

Adam - Athan in Tamil
Eve - Awwai in Tamil
kain - Khan
Nova - Naavai means ship in tamil

More examples also can be given.

Unfortunately,as the worlds renowned linguistic scholars like Max muller do not know the antiquity and richness of tamil literature they came to the conclusion is that "SANSKRIT" is the oldest language and it has come from Indo - european family of languages. Till his last days he was not aware of Tamil language

But the fact is, Tamil is the first and mother of all languages and Tamil has more root words for all the languages of the world.

For kumarikandam please read Riddles of the three oceans (Alexander Kondrathow)
Underworld (Graham vanhock)
Tamil literature Tholkapiam,paripadal,nattrinai etc

For Tamil Antiquity Please read Sollayvu(research Book), and books written by
Thevaneya paavanar, sathur sekaran, Iravatham
Mahadevan
Assertions != evidence, etc etc etc...

Poor Iravatham Mahadevan! To be such a serious scholar, and to be included in all that!
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Old November 28th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
in this subject let me give you some interesting fact (which everybody thinks that this is wrong, where there is substantial proof is available in Tamil Literature and The Bible) that according to world history IVC is the first and oldest civilisation of the world. But before IVC there existed a well advanced civilisation in Kumarikandam a sunken continent in the southern tip of India. The existense of Kumarikandam and subsequent three deluge which made the kumarikandam sunk in the ocean are mentioned in the Sangam tamil literatures. When the land sunk due to deluge people migrated from south to north and they settled in Indus(I civilisation). Later, , few moved to west from east and settled in Sinneyar (sumerian civilisation ) and then egyptian (nile)

From Bible you can see the same lineage .a) Kumarikandam: the creation of mankind, b)great flood, c)Noa escapes from the deluge, 4) please read Genesis chapter 11 verses 1-3 " And the whole earth was of ONE language, and of ONE speech.And it came to pass, as they journeyed FROM THE EAST TO WEST they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt in.And they said one another, Go to,let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had BRICK for Stone

From the above, Bible says about that on those days there was a single language existed and it is Tamil only, and no other language in the world claim that. Second Bible says that people moved from east to west. i.e. After Noah escapes from deluge (first deluge in approximately in 8000 B.C)
he built a ship to flee from Kumarikandam and settled in Indus. From Indus(which is located at east) they moved to west (sumeria is in west side of Indus)
They found a plain - they would have passed the mountains then saw a
plain land of shinar

let us make brick - making brick was familiar for them, because IVC was
the first civilisation and they used bricks for
construction. In kumarikandam stone was mainly
used for construction.

The names mentioned in Bible Genesis,are very closer to Tamil names and I give some examples

Adam - Athan in Tamil
Eve - Awwai in Tamil
kain - Khan
Nova - Naavai means ship in tamil

More examples also can be given.

Unfortunately,as the worlds renowned linguistic scholars like Max muller do not know the antiquity and richness of tamil literature they came to the conclusion is that "SANSKRIT" is the oldest language and it has come from Indo - european family of languages. Till his last days he was not aware of Tamil language

But the fact is, Tamil is the first and mother of all languages and Tamil has more root words for all the languages of the world.

For kumarikandam please read Riddles of the three oceans (Alexander Kondrathow)
Underworld (Graham vanhock)
Tamil literature Tholkapiam,paripadal,nattrinai etc

For Tamil Antiquity Please read Sollayvu(research Book), and books written by
Thevaneya paavanar, sathur sekaran, Iravatham
Mahadevan
Hm, I have some doubts about this
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Old November 28th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #270
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the age old lies made nil progress in the research of tamil origin

lie 1: tamils are dravidians

lie 2: invading aryans

lie 3: tamil is not related to sanskrit, sanskrit and greek are related languages

the above lies need to be put down inorder to know the exact version of history

remember onething, if u wanna track down the history of tamilians, its not easy as their ancestors were great traders and mariners, so at ancient times they had relations with all known world civilizations

and please hear what tamilians say about their history rather than from German scholar or Finnish scholars and also not from tamil iyers or iyengars
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