Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 10th, 2012, 05:18 AM   #311

beorna's Avatar
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Lower Saxony
Posts: 12,698

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadell View Post
You're probably right, and I guess these kind of ethnic pissing contests can't be avoided (see: every thread that involves the Balkans).
Once I thought the balkan discussions are special. meanwhile i don't. We have such discussions even between English and the other people from the Islands and I am right in the middle of such discussions, too
beorna is online now  
Remove Ads
Old December 10th, 2012, 05:44 AM   #312

Cadell's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
From: Southern Vermont
Posts: 366

Though on the decline, every once in a while you hear that stuff in the U.S., usually framed in the North vs. South paradigm. It's different here though, since we're so ethnically heterogeneous on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Not to say people can't be arrogant and chauvinistic, but it's almost always in an entirely different context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beorna View Post
Once I thought the balkan discussions are special. meanwhile i don't. We have such discussions even between English and the other people from the Islands and I am right in the middle of such discussions, too
Cadell is offline  
Old December 10th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #313

1991sudarshan's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2011
From: São Tomé de Meliapore
Posts: 1,701

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
Basically they are already part of great civilizations. Their ancestors conquered most of the South east Asia at one time. They have very rich heritage, literature, architecture and traditions. They are the one who kept the hinduism alive when much of the north India was being steam roled by Islamic Jihad. So they already have so many things for which they can feel proud.

All this nonsense that Tamil is mother of all the languages, they are the fathers of Indian civilizations is started because of the politics particularly language politics of South India. They are using all these nonsense to stir the public emotions and get more votes.

Rise of Dravidian parties to power in Tamil Nadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Thing is, the above mentioned stuffs were connected with Hinduism and Dravidian parties do not like Hinduism. That is why they are propagating theories that do not have Hindu or any brahmanical elements. Adding fuel to the fire, the Brahmins in Tamil Nadu think themselves as North Indian and they are superior to the other caste and my community people tell that all the languages in the world came from Sanskrit and Sanskrit is the most superior language on the earth. Because of these people, Hinduism , the religion was portrayed as a racial institution.

The Real Irony is , DMK party was supported and made to come to power by Rajagopalachari, who supported for the Compulsory Hindi Education during his tenure as Governor in the Madras Presidency.

The things down the south are quite Complex.

People from North India, all time tell that the south borrowed all the technology from the north and they have to accept the North as superior. Eventhough the south borrowed stuffs, we developed new stuffs from that. Some people in Tamil Nadu, refuse to accept the Northern Influence and elements in our culture. Our people think that, we would become inferior if we acknowledge the Northern Influence on our society. Our people are backing theories that portray that Southern Culture was formed independently and was superior to the Northern Culture.

Last edited by 1991sudarshan; December 10th, 2012 at 08:10 AM.
1991sudarshan is offline  
Old December 10th, 2012, 08:00 AM   #314

1991sudarshan's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2011
From: São Tomé de Meliapore
Posts: 1,701

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadell View Post
What would this mean for Tamils? A sense of superiority? My ancestors were, without exception, swineherds and minstrels until maybe 500 years ago and it doesn't bother me a bit. If I discovered tomorrow I was genetically linked to a great and ancient civilization it wouldn't change anything.
Yes. A sense of Superiority for the Tamil sans Tamil Brahmins. Dravidian fanatics are eager for such theories that doesn't involve Hinduism, Brahmins or any borrowed stuffs.
1991sudarshan is offline  
Old December 10th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #315

Jinit's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: India
Posts: 3,237
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1991sudarshan View Post
The Thing is, the above mentioned stuffs were connected with Hinduism and Dravidian parties do not like Hinduism. That is why they are propagating theories that do not have Hindu or any brahmanical elements. Adding fuel to the fire, the Brahmins in Tamil Nadu think themselves as North Indian and they are superior to the other caste and my community people tell that all the languages in the world came from Sanskrit and Sanskrit is the most superior language on the earth. Because of these people, Hinduism , the religion was portrayed as a racial institution.

well I am aware of the politics of Dravidian party. However the fact is that all this ideologies are on paper only and to lure the votes. If they really would have followed the ideology, the condition of poors or the non brahminical people might have improved with time. which unfortunately isn't happening. And whatever happened in the past remains in the past. If they want to proove themselves superior then just improve the condition of the state. Make it the best part of India. It will automatically proove their superiority.

Another irony is that, they are happy to learn and speak in english. However they rejected the hindi on the basis that we can't understand it. It is very differant from Tamil. It can't be our national language!!! they even hate sanskrit words in their own language, just because it has connection with the Brahmins. I wonder what will this nonsense ultimately lead to? If they won't stop this non sense , I won't be surprised if one day they start demanding separate nations for them.

Quote:
The things down the south are quite Complex
Actually not in south but the thing all over India are quite complex.

Quote:
People from North India, all time tell that the south borrowed all the technology from the north and they have to accept the North as superior. Eventhough the south borrowed stuffs, we developed new stuffs from that. Some people in Tamil Nadu, refuse to accept the Northern Influence and elements in our culture. Our people think that, we would become inferior if we acknowledge the Northern Influence on our society. Our people are backing theories that portray that Southern Culture was formed independently and was superior to the Northern Culture.
This is another misleadinf fact. Most of the people in northern India aren't even aware of it and they basically don't even care about such things. They are more concerned about their day to day lives. It is only so called intellectual class which is telling all this stuff. And I wonder even they are speaking all this stuff or just Dravidian parties are making stories by themselves to just get the votes.

And what elements of North Indian culture? The Indian culture is made by contribution from all the parts of India. Kanad was from Gujarat, Panini was from Afghanistan, Shankracharya was from South India and so on.. So particularly culture of every part of India has elements from all the other parts of India. It is an undeniable fact and it can't be changed. No matter how many times they shout that ours is the only superior culture!!! and frankly speaking all this Tamil nationalist agendas reminds me of Hitler and its racial purity and such things.
Jinit is offline  
Old December 11th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #316
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: uk
Posts: 691
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantivarman View Post
first let us discuss on ghosundi inscription and then i will see how knowledgeable you are on sanskrit.



yes, " my friend " ( i have borrowed this from you ) do me this favour .


LET US TALK ON GHOSUNDI INSCRIPTION .
It is you who have brought here the Ghosundi inscription. You have to tell us in detail about Ghosundi inscription.
unmai53 is offline  
Old December 11th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #317
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: uk
Posts: 691
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
Basically they are already part of great civilizations. Their ancestors conquered most of the South east Asia at one time. They have very rich heritage, literature, architecture and traditions. They are the one who kept the hinduism alive when much of the north India was being steam roled by Islamic Jihad. So they already have so many things for which they can feel proud.

All this nonsense that Tamil is mother of all the languages, they are the fathers of Indian civilizations is started because of the politics particularly language politics of South India. They are using all these nonsense to stir the public emotions and get more votes.

Rise of Dravidian parties to power in Tamil Nadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ha, Ha, here We are discussing history, where as you are diverting the entire scenario towards the politics. In India whether he is dravidian leader or not no politicians are coming to power to do service to the people ,instead they are coming to power to swindle. This is applicable to north India also.

To come to a conclusion, there are number of reference books that are available to establish Indus Valley is Tamil civilisation & also about Kumarikandam(lemuria)
I give below the names of the books which you may read

1.The Bible Old testament Genesis chapter 11: 1-3
2.The riddles of the three oceans ( book by Alexander Kondrathove)
3.The underworld ( book by Graham hanhock)
4.The wonder that was India (Book by A.L.Basham)
5.Sangam tamil literatures (manimekalai, sillappathigaram, paripadal
6.From Bahruli to Eupradis ( by M.C.Victor)
7.Sorpirappiyal, viathagu unmaigal by M.R.M.Muhamed Haneefa
8.Kumarikandam by M.C.Victor
9.Ulagalavia Thamiz book by sathur sekaran
10.The primary classical language of the world (book by Dhevaneya paavaanar)
11. Origin of humanity and origin of language (book by Sathur sekaran)
and many more.

What ever I write , it is all based on references taken from research based books. If you find time , read some of the books and you will find the truth.
Go through the contents with Broad outlook.
unmai53 is offline  
Old December 11th, 2012, 09:47 AM   #318

beorna's Avatar
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Lower Saxony
Posts: 12,698

The bible and the myth abot the tower of Babel as evidence for a tamil civilisation?
Is there any evidence that the term sinear, shinar means something else than babel? And even if this Shinar would be the IVC, then the bible states, that the tower was build ca. 100 years after the deluge and destroyed around 2300. The IVC started at 3300, the high culture at 2600. So how could they survive the deluge in 2500? Why did the IVC survive and lasted another 400 years after the destruction of Babel?

Today I have my polite day. So your argument with the bible is ....very poor.
beorna is online now  
Old December 11th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #319
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: uk
Posts: 691
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by beorna View Post
The bible and the myth abot the tower of Babel as evidence for a tamil civilisation?
Is there any evidence that the term sinear, shinar means something else than babel? And even if this Shinar would be the IVC, then the bible states, that the tower was build ca. 100 years after the deluge and destroyed around 2300. The IVC started at 3300, the high culture at 2600. So how could they survive the deluge in 2500? Why did the IVC survive and lasted another 400 years after the destruction of Babel?

Today I have my polite day. So your argument with the bible is ....very poor.
Please read my post once again. I have given the reference from verses 1 to 3 of Genesis Chapter 11. The subject of babel is coming only after that. What I want to emphasis is in verses 1 to 3 there is a mentioning of

"And the whole world was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt there.And they said to one another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly.And they had brick for stone and slime had they for morter."

This one language and one speech is refers to Tamil and may not be Greek, latin,sanskrit or accadian or any other language. Because , while linguistic scholars researched the languages of greek,latin,sanskrit, accadian, english,french and german and other languages they were able to find their ROOT WORDS which belongs to only Tamil. Besides, so far, no language in the world has worthy to claim "as oldest" than Tamil because they can not give any substantial proof for their antiquity.

"as they journeyed from east : You are well aware that the world's oldest civilisation is IVC. From Indus People MOVED TO WEST FROM East .

"they found a plain in the land of Shinar and dwelt there : when people moved west from east after they found plains in the Shinar region where they formed the second oldest civilisation "Sumerian civilisation"
Shinar is a region.

"and they said to one another,go to, let us make brick: In sumer they built their town made of bricks, which they already know how to make bricks right from their earlier place i.e Indus vally. Archeological evidence states that Indus valley town is built by bricks and they joined bricks with morter. No other civilisation on earth prior to IVC has used bricks and morter for construction.

The people of IVC is Tamil because the symbols of Bull, swastik , fish, man with bulls horn on his head, and woman (kottravai) were the symbols used by Dravidians right from Kumarikandam (lemuria).

If you read some of the books which I referred, will help you to understand further .

Any way, I pray God to bless your each and every day as a "polite day"

Last edited by unmai53; December 12th, 2012 at 12:03 AM.
unmai53 is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #320

Bharata's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Forum
Posts: 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
Please read my post once again. I have given the reference from verses 1 to 3 of Genesis Chapter 11. The subject of babel is coming only after that. What I want to emphasis is in verses 1 to 3 there is a mentioning of

"And the whole world was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and they dwelt there.And they said to one another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly.And they had brick for stone and slime had they for morter."

This one language and one speech is refers to Tamil and may not be Greek, latin,sanskrit or accadian or any other language. Because , while linguistic scholars researched the languages of greek,latin,sanskrit, accadian, english,french and german and other languages they were able to find their ROOT WORDS which belongs to only Tamil. Besides, so far, no language in the world has worthy to claim "as oldest" than Tamil because they can not give any substantial proof for their antiquity.

"as they journeyed from east : You are well aware that the world's oldest civilisation is IVC. From Indus People MOVED TO WEST FROM East .

"they found a plain in the land of Shinar and dwelt there : when people moved west from east after they found plains in the Shinar region where they formed the second oldest civilisation "Sumerian civilisation"
Shinar is a region.

"and they said to one another,go to, let us make brick: In sumer they built their town made of bricks, which they already know how to make bricks right from their earlier place i.e Indus vally. Archeological evidence states that Indus valley town is built by bricks and they joined bricks with morter. No other civilisation on earth prior to IVC has used bricks and morter for construction.

The people of IVC is Tamil because the symbols of Bull, swastik , fish, man with bulls horn on his head, and woman (kottravai) were the symbols used by Dravidians right from Kumarikandam (lemuria).

If you read some of the books which I referred, will help you to understand further .

Any way, I pray God to bless your each and every day as a "polite day"
Bro if the whole world was speaking tamil where did tamil originate now dont say it was bought all the way from present tamil nadu.
Bharata is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
indus valley


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ethnicity of The Indus Valley Civilization 1991sudarshan Ancient History 66 September 13th, 2012 07:39 PM
Linear A and Indus Valley Script Barbarossa Ancient History 40 September 4th, 2012 04:01 PM
some indus river valley questions dreamshadow3 History Help 4 February 18th, 2011 07:08 PM
Indus Valley Syed F. Inam Ancient History 3 November 19th, 2010 12:37 PM
Indus Valley celtman Ancient History 25 June 10th, 2010 02:07 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.