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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #101

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No. I am impartial except that some of my family believe they are descended from shang jizi which is why I take an especially hard stance on the jizi migration.
If you have a pre-conceived agenda, then you are hardly impartial, right?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #102

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No. I am impartial except that some of my family believe they are descended from shang jizi which is why I take an especially hard stance on the jizi migration. You don't have to use special measures to protect your precious history. Nobody here is stupid and the truth will prevail here. Your labels are ad hominem. Know what that means? You 're attacking the person.
Korean nationalists had done much more ad hominem to the Chinese than vice-versa.

I believe there's a video on youtube created by some Korean natinalists and it states that "Chinese are 90% niggers or negritos", attacking the Chinese and the Blacks at the same time. You could look up for that video on youtube.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #103

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I found the video. This is both fake genetic data and ad hominem. Come and take a look at what your Korean compatriots had done.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #104
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If you have a pre-conceived agenda, then you are hardly impartial, right?
I'd like to prove the jizi migration. But that doesn't mean I distort facts. Hence I claim to be impartial except I am far too convinced of the jizi story's truth. But it's not uncommon for scholars to believe their hypothesis with certainty even before the evidence is fully collected.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #105
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Korean nationalists had done much more ad hominem to the Chinese than vice-versa.

I believe there's a video on youtube created by some Korean natinalists and it states that "Chinese are 90% niggers or negritos", attacking the Chinese and the Blacks at the same time. You could look up for that video on youtube.
They have nothing to do with me. And two wrongs don't make a right. Also, it could be anyone pretending. Please have some sense and stop these ad hominem attacks.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #106

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They have nothing to do with me. And two wrongs don't make a right. Also, it could be anyone pretending. Please have some sense and stop these ad hominem attacks.
I don't think I used ad hominem attacks on you. I was merely pointing out the facts that some Korean nationalists are distorting Chinese history and posting hateful videos on youtube.

Please have some sense and stop claiming Chinese history.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #107

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By the way, I also want to bring out some genetic data. I remember that I saw somewhere that the Chinese geneticists did a test on the human remains found in Linzi tombs of the Qi state dated back to 2500 years ago. Most of the remains belong to mitochondrial haplogroup B, which is a common mt-haplogroup found among Southern Chinese and Pacific Islanders. Some people claimed that the Dawenko people was similar to Polynesians, and I think it does make some sense, since both have high frequencies of mitochondrial haplogroup B.

The genetic data on ancient Korea is scarce, but I heard that the Korean geneticists also tested some human remains found in Korea, and those remains belonged to mitochondrial haplogroups D and G.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #108

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Facial reconstruction of a Dawenko (大汶口) woman, Shangdong province, dated back to 6000 years before present. She does seem to look somewhat like Polynesians.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #109
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I probably could have explained my last sentence better. Agriculture must be ancient. So ancient that significant language divergence occurred. For the agricultural language to remerge like Korea to Dravidian, a relatively new influx must have occurred.

Of course this is assuming agriculture did not arise independently in two places in Asia, referring to language divergence. If it did arise independently it's still a new influence, Dravidian in Korea.

I see that you are uncomfortable with an argument which lack of sources. Instead you should look at this as a thought experiment. I'm uncomfortable with using too many outside sources that might introducing biases in our analysis. Conclusions must be independently reached or attempted then dialectically resolved. This means independent of all other analysis and sources. This does not cut out sources completely. Rather it's excluding sources until after forming a conclusion, at which point we study other opinions. I guess for some people this is simply natural and for others they would just like to be told the answer. I find the latter too boring however.
One way or another, no evidence of Dravidian influence on Shang have been found.
Making conclusion without evidence is nothing more than biases and agenda. Conclusions are base on the available evidences found, NOT attempted then dialectically resolved. Attempted it then dialectically resolved just show you want history goes according to your wishful thought.That just bias and very unprofessional. The burden of proof lies upon claimant. Making conclusion without evidence is what we call non existence argument.

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But it's not uncommon for scholars to believe their hypothesis with certainty even before the evidence is fully collected.
Actually, it's uncommon.

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Another Korean propaganda, enough said. This is exactly the reason why I dislike some Korean nationalists; they are very good at stealing the history of other people.
True, even the neutral, western scholars do not buy all this Korean propaganda nonsense. Western scholars, Sarah M.Nelson and the two scholars that Cerberus quoted, Pulleyback and Nigel Wiseman see Shang as Chinese and they even presented EVIDENCES on why Shang is Chinese.

Last edited by Zoopiter; November 9th, 2012 at 11:13 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #110

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Making conclusion without evidence is nothing more than biases and propaganda. Conclusions are base on the available evidences found, NOT attempted then dialectically resolved. Attempted it then dialectically resolved just show you want history goes according to your wishful thought.
agree.


that leaded me to re-think that famous money case in recent time.

china archaeologists found some ancient moneys of war states period (before 221 BC), some moneys were signed with simple lines, maybe for calculate the amount of moneys or other reasons, you know the korean text (it was invented about 15 century AD) have many lines and circles too, then many korean thought the lines on money must be korean texts, their logic is to presuppose the two things related at first, then find any similarity points (maybe only "look like similarity" or "sound like similarity")to prove, but normal program should be to find the similarity points and prove the two things are same at first, then get the result that the two things relate.

from theory angle, the only one thing can relate shang with korea, it is jizi of shang dynasty, that happened after end of shang dynasty, but it is interesting that some koreans don't accept the thing because that will prove china is the one of korean origins if jizi is true.

we can't find many proofs to prove the relatation shang with korea in academic except the record about jizi till now.

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by zoopiter

Actually, it's uncommon.
it is only common among the korean scholars. XD

Last edited by fangqingming; November 9th, 2012 at 11:59 PM.
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