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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #11
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Grr! As usual, it's soundbites in newspapers, and no link to the actual research! Not just here - I can't find the actual paper anywhere on the net.

I'd really like to see what was actually presented...
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #12

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I am reading a research paper on Cranial Traumas in the Skeletons excavated in the IV sites. That paper tries to establish that Indus Civilization was not peaceful one and inter-personal rivalry involved.

A peaceful realm? Trauma and social differentiation at Harappa | Harappa
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #13

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I don't find this "discovery" useful at all.

Pre-early Harappan, is not IVC but its precedent. That horizon belongs to Neolithic communities, still not a civillization, and certainlly goes back to 7000 BC.

But the fact was knew before this "discovery", so I can't see the point.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:19 PM   #14
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I am not really an expert in ancient civilizations. Will try and update the thread on a regular basis.

Nitish Kumar begins Pakistan tour, to offer tips of Development

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Bihar CM Nitish Kumar will leave the state capital on Thursday for Karachi en route Dubai for his weeklong goodwill visit to Pakistan from November 9 to 16.He will also address a seminar where he will share tips of development .

He will also visit Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi besides the archaeological sites of Mohenjodaro and Takshila. "Nitish Kumar is not hiding his interest to visit historical places of Indus Valley Civilization during his visit to Pakistan with his party leaders and top officials," the official said.
Nitish Kumar begins Pakistan tour,to offer tips of development

Last edited by Jhangora; November 8th, 2012 at 01:40 PM.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #15

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Originally Posted by Frank81 View Post
I don't find this "discovery" useful at all.

Pre-early Harappan, is not IVC but its precedent. That horizon belongs to Neolithic communities, still not a civillization, and certainlly goes back to 7000 BC.

But the fact was knew before this "discovery", so I can't see the point.
This was what I was thinking. I think the news is they have found such neolithic sites in modern day India away from Baluchistan (Mehrgarh).
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Old November 8th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #16

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Originally Posted by Jhangora View Post
Update ~

"A palm leaf manuscript discovered from Harappan site in Afghanistan has strengthened the belief of existence of a proto Brahmi script, which was used by Indus Valley people. This discussion was raised by Dr DP Sharma, Harappan archaeologist and director, Bharat Kala Bhawan, Banaras Hindu University (BHU) in the International Conference on Harappan Archaeology held recently in Chandigarh.

Sharma further strengthens his argument by quoting the DNA analysis carried out by Dr Lalji Singh, vice-chancellor, BHU. According to Sharma, the analysis by Singh suggests that the two ancient races Aryan and Dravidians were native of India and none of them came outside of our country. The Aryan and Dravidian races in India have the same genetic basis."

Harappan people used an older form of Brahmi script: Expert - The Times of India

Not to be offensive, this is just my take on it. this sounds like another "Out of India" nationalist theory. To my knowledge Aryans were pastorialist nomads who migrated from Central Asia and Pakistan. The Dravidians that inhabited the North-West punjab region, were thus pushed to the south. Being that this migration is somewhere between 1500 - 1300 BCE, it has no relevance to the IVC which covers approx. 2500 - 1900 BCE.

In regards to the thread, I have to agree with other posts that just because peoples resided in this area doesn't mean they held the qualifications to be considered a civilization. There were peoples in Mesopotamia and the Nile Delta well before their civilizations emerged.

Apologies, still new to this quoting system.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by shash View Post
Grr! As usual, it's soundbites in newspapers, and no link to the actual research! Not just here - I can't find the actual paper anywhere on the net.

I'd really like to see what was actually presented...

I share your anxiety. But lets be patient. We shall hopefully get the ASI report of the conference available online in some time.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Frank81 View Post
I don't find this "discovery" useful at all.

Pre-early Harappan, is not IVC but its precedent. That horizon belongs to Neolithic communities, still not a civillization, and certainlly goes back to 7000 BC.

But the fact was knew before this "discovery", so I can't see the point.

Have you read the report of the ASI ? Let us be patient and not make hasty pronouncements.

If you & me knew something of the pre-Harappan phase, you'd expect the archaeologists of the ASI (Archaeological Survey of India) to know about it as well. Therefore, there must be something more to the news for the ASI to term it as a discovery. Let us wait for the full report to come out.

Perhaps some substantial new discoveries have been made. Previously, besides Mehrgarh no pre-IVC site was dated to earlier than 5000 BC. But it is being said in the news that Bhirrana in Haryana has yielded radio-metric dates of 7380 BC to 6201 BC. Plus, a few other sites are also mentioned as having been excavated. It would be interesting to know if these other sites also yielded such early dates.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by UberHistorian1 View Post
Not to be offensive, this is just my take on it. this sounds like another "Out of India" nationalist theory. To my knowledge Aryans were pastorialist nomads who migrated from Central Asia and Pakistan. The Dravidians that inhabited the North-West punjab region, were thus pushed to the south. Being that this migration is somewhere between 1500 - 1300 BCE, it has no relevance to the IVC which covers approx. 2500 - 1900 BCE.

In regards to the thread, I have to agree with other posts that just because peoples resided in this area doesn't mean they held the qualifications to be considered a civilization. There were peoples in Mesopotamia and the Nile Delta well before their civilizations emerged.

Apologies, still new to this quoting system.
Since you've offered apologies beforehand I shall be polite in my response.

Please read the news report. There is nothing about Indo-European history that is being talked about. It is information about the new archaeological finds that is being relayed. So, there is no connection with Out Of India theory being made here by the ASI director generals.

And please wait for the entire report of the ASI to be available. We shall then know what has been actually discovered.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 07:20 AM   #20

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberHistorian1 View Post
Not to be offensive, this is just my take on it. this sounds like another "Out of India" nationalist theory. To my knowledge Aryans were pastorialist nomads who migrated from Central Asia and Pakistan. The Dravidians that inhabited the North-West punjab region, were thus pushed to the south. Being that this migration is somewhere between 1500 - 1300 BCE, it has no relevance to the IVC which covers approx. 2500 - 1900 BCE.

In regards to the thread, I have to agree with other posts that just because peoples resided in this area doesn't mean they held the qualifications to be considered a civilization. There were peoples in Mesopotamia and the Nile Delta well before their civilizations emerged.

Apologies, still new to this quoting system.
Your Euro-centric bias is astounding. Even the left-wing Marxist historians of India don't believe in Aryan and Dravidian races. Early phase of IVC is before 2500 BCE, it still was a civilization, its called the Ravi Phase which was 3500-2800 BCE.

A-world-civilization,World Civilization Class,World Civilization to 1550 C.E,The Jewish Contribution to World Civilization,Timeline results for world-civilization,World Civilization: A Brief History,Islam, A World Civilization,Technology in world civ

Latest genetic studies show that India was first populated by Ancestral South Indians around 60,000 YBP and ancestral North Indians around 35,000 YBP.

All Indians are a mixture of these two groups.

Nothing less, nothing more.
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