african haplogroups and admixture in white european americans forums

Mandschure · November 16th, 2012, 11:20 PM

A new genetic study suggests that Japanese are more mixed with Africans than other East Asians.

Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: A thousand (and ninety two) genomes

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This is an open access paper describing the phase1 data of the 1000 Genomes Project. There is plenty of interest in the paper and supplement, but look at Figure S8 (left). This indicates the median shared haplotype length around f2 sites, i.e., sites where the variant exists twice in the sample and hence it makes sense to speak of shared length.

The maximum such length is for FIN (Finns) at 140kb, but it seems fairly obvious visually that the lowest sharing is found in multi-origin populations from the Americas (MXL, CLM, PUR, AS), in which segments are probably "interrupted" because of admixture. African populations (LWK/YRI) also tend to have low sharing, followed by Europeans, and East Asians.

There are little details in evidence: for example, IBS sharing with Luhya (LWK) seems higher than the European average, consistent with some level of African admixture in Spain, that has probably contributed some African haplotypes.

There seems to be a hint of an excess of sharing between Japanese (JPT) and Luhya (LWK). I have to wonder whether this might have something to do with Y-haplogroup D which links the Japanese with African Y-haplogroup E bearers. An excess of sharing between CHS (Singapore Chinese) and PUR (Puerto Rico) also seems to be suggested, for which I have no good hypothesis.

Nature 491, 56–65 (01 November 2012) doi:10.1038/nature11632

**Pacific_Victory** · November 16th, 2012, 11:29 PM

Just out of curiousity, could this be attributed to the Japanese mixing with the Ainu and other natives, who presumably were genetically closer to Africans than the typical East Asian?

Mandschure · November 17th, 2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacific_Victory

Just out of curiousity, could this be attributed to the Japanese mixing with the Ainu and other natives, who presumably were genetically closer to Africans than the typical East Asian?

Maybe. However there may be a connection between the Y-DNA chromosomes. Japanese and Africans share similar Y-DNA called Y-DNA haplogroup DE.

Y-DNA haplogroup DE is most frequent in Africa, the Andaman Islanders, Himalayas and Japan.

Jhangora · November 17th, 2012, 12:41 AM

Y Haplogroup D probably has Asian origins. It is also pretty common among Tibetans. May have originated 60,000 years ago. It would be interesting to find out how and why it prospered in the Adamans, Tibet, and Japan and why it didn't do so well in other places in Asia.

Considering that no haplogroup D chromosomes have been found anywhere outside of Asia, according to Wikipedia, how can we be sure that the Japanese have a lot of African admixture? Lots of communities in Africa tend to be very long while on average the Japanese tend to be shorter than their East Asian neighbors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D_%28Y-DNA%29

http://dienekes.blogspot.in/2008/10/...aplogroup.html

Mandschure · November 17th, 2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhangora

Y Haplogroup D probably has Asian origins. It is also pretty common among Tibetans. May have originated 60,000 years ago. It would be interesting to find out how and why it prospered in the Adamans, Tibet, and Japan and why it didn't do so well in other places in Asia.

Considering that no haplogroup D chromosomes have been found anywhere outside of Asia, according to Wikipedia, how can we be sure that the Japanese have a lot of African admixture? Lots of communities in Africa tend to be very long while on average the Japanese tend to be shorter than their East Asian neighbors?

Haplogroup D (Y-DNA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: 60,000-year-old Y-chromosome haplogroup D? Not really

Because Y-DNA haplogroup D is a descendant of Y-DNA haplogroup DE* which has been found in Africa. The other descendant of Y-DNA haplogroup DE* is Y-DNA haplogroup E which is the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroup in Africa.

**Naomasa298** · November 17th, 2012, 02:15 AM

Given that the ancestors of modern Japanese are believed to have migrated to the islands from around the area that is now Korea, is this also found amongst Koreans?

Jhangora · November 17th, 2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandschure

Because Y-DNA haplogroup D is a descendant of Y-DNA haplogroup DE* which has been found in Africa. The other descendant of Y-DNA haplogroup DE* is Y-DNA haplogroup E which is the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroup in Africa.

Ahhh ... going by that definition we are all Africans. We know that the Japanese are not Africans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naomasa298

Given that the ancestors of modern Japanese are believed to have migrated to the islands from around the area that is now Korea, is this also found amongst Koreans?

I guess you mean the cultural ancestors Naomasa. We are discussing Genetics here. Something which I don't know much about but understand a little bit.

Mandschure · November 17th, 2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhangora

Ahhh ... going by that definition we are all Africans. We know that the Japanese are not Africans.

I guess you mean the cultural ancestors Naomasa. We are discussing Genetics here. Something which I don't know much about but understand a little bit.

Except other East Asians are not descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Only Japanese are more related to Africans because they are direct descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naomasa298

Given that the ancestors of modern Japanese are believed to have migrated to the islands from around the area that is now Korea, is this also found amongst Koreans?

Koreans are not descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Koreans gave Japanese Y-DNA haplogroup O2b and O3.

Therefore Japanese are mixed whereas Koreans are not mixed.

Jhangora · November 17th, 2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandschure

Except other East Asians are not descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Only Japanese are more related to Africans because they are direct descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

But Male Haplogroups are just 50% of the story. What about the Japanese Female lineages? Are they African too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandschure

Koreans are not descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Koreans gave Japanese Y-DNA haplogroup O2b and O3.

Therefore Japanese are mixed whereas Koreans are not mixed.

But when the Koreans entered Japan there was no Japan and no Korea. Koreans are certainly mixed too. I think they share their race and blood with the Han Chinese

KingButler · November 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM

So you guys are still reading stuff from Dienskes blog and his own little interpretations?. I still remember the day when people get their sources from this racist amateur blogger called Robert Lindsay who takes data from scientific studies and than make his own crazy interpretations and conclusions lol

Here is a link to the study ( No interpretations from Dieneskes )
An integrated map of genetic variation from 1,092 human genomes : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

Why only Japanese?

Why not mixed race Columbians who have more East Asian DNA?
Why not so called 100% African who have higher East Asian DNA
Why not Iberians who have higher East Asian DNA
Why not Finnish people who have more African DNA than Siberian?

Seriously last time I checked all the Finnish people DNA chart shows them having 5.86% Siberian/Mongoloid DNA and 0% African DNA, this chart shows having higher African admixture than both Siberian and East Asian... isn't this funny? I mean lot at that chunk, it's even 2x higher than other Europeans and they don't even have any African haplogroups lol

Also why not explain why 100% Africans have higher East Asian DNA?

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Except other East Asians are not descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Only Japanese are more related to Africans because they are direct descendants of Y-DNA haplogroup DE*.

Tibetans D1 and Tibeto-Burmese D3a but no African admixture.

Why only Japanese are more related with African

Didn't you mtDNA M and N are descendants of African maternal L3. M is marker is found from 20-25% in East and Southeast Asians. N is also found at 3-5% in Asians???

If Japanese are related with Africans than so are Koreans because Koreans have 20% of M and 5% of N.

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Just out of curiousity, could this be attributed to the Japanese mixing with the Ainu and other natives, who presumably were genetically closer to Africans than the typical East Asian?

No... Jomon are genetically closer to Native Americans and old Siberians and Ainu today are predominately Jomon.

Facial reconstruction of Jomon man and women

This admixture doesn't mean there was any interracial admixture like Mandchure tried to interpret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhangora

But Male Haplogroups are just 50% of the story. What about the Japanese Female lineages? Are they African too?

Japanese have 14% Jomon mtDNA and 36% Jomon Y-DNA.

Aside from mtDNA N9b and M7a, other Jomon lineage according to Japanese scientist are M10, Z, N9B, Y, M8 so on average Japanese have 14% Jomon mtDNA and range from 8.1% to 20%. while for Y-DNA is 26.4%-46.2% so the average for Japanese would be 36%

Ancient Jomon mtDNA

N9b and M7a is the most predominate and found in all 3 Jomon groups sampled.

M7a

1) 7.1%
2) 30%
3) 3.7%

N9b

1) 68%
2) 60%
3) 13%