Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:29 PM   #81

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 10,504
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
and I am not bigot, if wenge had ever read my posts, he should know I respect to indian culture and history.

Aryan Invasion Theory is one famous theory so I had that suggestion, I am glad other posters (especially indian posters) can correct me if I misunderstanded it indeed.

look like wenge like me.
Of course Wenge likes you, we all like you. What's there not to like? I just wonder why you respond to him more than anyone else?
Jake10 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:34 PM   #82

Wenge's Avatar
American
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: The True Capital of China
Posts: 7,626

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
and I am not bigot, if wenge had ever read my posts, he should know I respect to indian culture and history.

Aryan Invasion Theory is one famous theory so I had that suggestion, I am glad other posters (especially indian posters) can correct me if I misunderstanded it indeed.

look like wenge like me. ( I am just joking)
As Jake said in a later post, I do like you and I do not think you are any kind of bigot. if I didn't like you I wouldn't respond to your posts.
Wenge is online now  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:50 PM   #83

fangqingming's Avatar
history princess
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: dragon's area
Posts: 2,812

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
Of course Wenge likes you, we all like you. What's there not to like? I just wonder why you respond to him more than anyone else?
because he like china topic as one american.

Quote:
As Jake said in a later post, I do like you and I do not think you are any kind of bigot. if I didn't like you I wouldn't respond to your posts.
you only like to oppsite my views points .


it same happened to other chinese posters too. every chinese posters who said any good about china are easy to get your " care".


deke had noticed it .

Last edited by fangqingming; November 23rd, 2012 at 07:02 PM.
fangqingming is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:02 PM   #84

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 10,504
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
because he like china topic as one american.



you only like to oppsite my views points .


it same happened to other chinese posters too. every chinese posters who said any good view points about china are easy to get your " care".


deke had pointed it out.
Does it mean anyone who opposes your views will get your care?
Jake10 is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:05 PM   #85

fangqingming's Avatar
history princess
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: dragon's area
Posts: 2,812

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
Does it mean anyone who opposes your views will get your care?
no,

but you can post some sentences about china , you must can get wenge's care.

Last edited by fangqingming; November 23rd, 2012 at 07:24 PM.
fangqingming is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:03 PM   #86
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by deke View Post
This is coming from someone who is proud of the caste system and wants to maintain it in modern india, boasting about racial purity. I don't know if that is more pathetic than using oral literature to date this caste system you are so proud of to thousands of years ago.

You are calling people pathetic for asking for actual solid evidence.

The hindu civilizations in southeast asia, in indonesia, malaysia, and the philippines voluntarily converted to islam so they could live in equality and shed the caste system, they didn't convert under force.

You keep on harping on and on about "tradtional" culture and how people should stick to it, you should not use any modern inventions and live life like 4,000 years ago as described in sanslrit mantras if you are so proud of that lifestyle.

The same mantras you describe as "evidence" for how old indian civilization is, also contain tales about hindu gods and supernatural hindu religious phenomena. Asking us to accept those as evidence is asking us to believe in hinduism, which none of us do except indians. If i accept the iliad as evidence for life in ancient greece, that means i accept zeus, poseidon and other greek gods as real.

What was tradition today was new thousands of years ago.
When have I boasted about racial purity?

I have never said I want to revive caste system and please I advise you to show where I said such things.

BTW, I alone can not confront 100s of chinese posters here on antiquity of civilization but since civilization in chinese view equals polity or kingdom so I do not have much disgreement if we use chinese views.


yes if polity = civilization, chinese civilization is certainly oldest continous.

Maurya empire unified India earlier than Chinese but there was no continuity of such centralized kingdoms so in a way Indian civilization is just 65 years old.


Finally, nothing can change the fact that for 1000 years Vietnam was more Indianized than sinicized and the only major polity with which chinese engaged in that area was a hindu kingdom of champa.

infact, if you people want you can turn this in your advantage as champa was indianized and Vietnamese destroyed somewhere in 15th century this civilization.

since people on this forum post about goguryeo and chinese occupation, you can also remind viets about how they are invaders in champa.

Last edited by avantivarman; November 23rd, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
avantivarman is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:06 PM   #87
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pusyamitra View Post
All civilizations change, China is no exception. The fact remains though that Chinese culture has changed the least out of all civilizations.

I will rank Indian civilization as the second most continuous (would be like Chinese if not for Muslims).
Indian civilization is just 65 years old having come into existence in 1947.


and though people call me bigots( damn they who do not read me carefully) , I am very different from those Indians who believe that India would have been like China if not for muslims.

do you really believe that India in 11th and 12th century was intellectually, economically and militarily on par with Song China?

It was not and could have been not and though it may sound bitter but chinese in last 2500 years have outsmarted us economically, technologically and poltically for some 2000 years.

the only time when we were on par or better than china in such matters was Maurya age which is 310 to 200 bc and gupta empire that is 350 to 470 ad which means a total of 230 years mere 10 percent of time.


so India was ahead of china for 10 percent of time whereas china was ahead of india for 90 percent of time.

therefore, saying that India would have been like china but for muslims is wrong.

there is reason why chinese have contempt ( it is not hate but contempt that is behaviour of insulting Indians) towards Indians as they have been more dominating historically and plus Indians are darker than east asians so a bit of racism is also there.

Last edited by avantivarman; November 23rd, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
avantivarman is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:09 PM   #88
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
Race change should be calculated into about the change of Indian civilization too.
There is no foreign genes in India since 1500 Bc except for muslims and they are one of the components of people in India.
avantivarman is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:20 PM   #89
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pusyamitra View Post
Wrong on all accounts. I guess you are referring to the Aryan Invasion Theory?
Well even the most Eurocentric scholars now agree that it was more of a migration by a few elites that dominated the dying Indus society by affecting its linguistics, etc. Similar example can be seen in the case of modern Turkey where the previous people who were Armenians, Anatolians, Greeks now call themselves Turks. Genetic contribution of the original Seljuk/Ottoman Turks to Turkey's population is very low indeed.
The thing Pushyamitra is that IVC people looked like modern day punjabis who are considered to be most caucasoid and since that time no genetic inflow is indicated in any of the north indian population.

saying that indian racial composition changed is most ridiculous argument i have ever heard.


IVC language might have been dravidian or aryan but racially they were same as the vedic seers and epic age people.
avantivarman is offline  
Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:25 PM   #90
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangqingming View Post
thanks for these information.

so, the later Aryan people inherited the previous civilization from Dravidian (if the ancient civilization really was founded by Dravidian ) or ancient Gujarat and Sindh people?
the problem in this scenario is that we are not sure about dravidian identity of IVC people.


if we accept the AIT, we can say that they absorbed some of the elements of IVC and many of them persist down to this day like use of swastika, vermillon and fire altars.
avantivarman is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
5000, china, civilization


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What would it take for a civilisation to remain superpower for over 5000 years? Satuf Speculative History 20 May 22nd, 2014 11:26 PM
What really made Western civilization dominant over the rest for the past 500 years? TruthSeeker1 European History 94 May 31st, 2012 06:01 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.