Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 7th, 2012, 04:54 AM   #31
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,657

Quote:
even today, indian grammar is very sophisticated than many other languages but that does not make us superpower.
I wonder why that sophistication has not rubbed of on you Please write more clearly and coherently

Last edited by Joshua A; December 7th, 2012 at 06:12 AM.
Joshua A is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 7th, 2012, 04:59 AM   #32

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 11,122
Blog Entries: 3

If we are going to start debating which civilization outsmarted which then we're talking about a subjective concept which cannot be answered. We have seen many west vs east threads in this forum, and they all indicate the same thing. They can go on forever without a clear answer. I hope this does not turn into a China vs India thread. Perhaps the word outsmarted is not appropriate. Perhaps we should look at some of the objective aspects such as avoiding cultural domination, wealth, and world standings today.
Jake10 is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:04 AM   #33

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 10,379
Blog Entries: 11

Quote:
I meant arts , music etc. of both these civilizations.

like take a look at this sculpture of buddha which is of 500-700 ad period from india and this is best we have got .
I was thinking of arts, literature, philosophy etc. How about India's architectural heritage, to take just one example; surely it is richer and more varied than that of China? On the other hand, Chinese porcelain is unmatched, and China has a richer heritage when it comes to painting, although Mughal miniatures and book illustrations can be exceedingly fine. The philosophical traditions of the two civilizations are much on a level I would have thought. Sculpture is not something that I know much about, except for Buddhist sculpture in China and Japan, though I am of course acquainted with Indian temple sculptures from photographs and film. Would it be true to say that in India, sculpture tends more to form part of the architectural whole?
Linschoten is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:24 AM   #34
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua A View Post
Really, it is a false question. The question assumes China has "outsmarted India" and asks why, assuming that the fact that China outsmarted India is a fact. Debatable, very debatable.

We know India dominated China culturally for thousands of years via Buddhism, but we cannot find any cultural domination of India by China, in fact we cannot find a single influence of China on India. Although China had its own rich culture Taoism and Confucianism, it was confronted with a stronger culture of Buddhism and was assimilated into it to form Zen Buddhism. Interestingly, some parts of Chinese culture that we think characterize it are not indigenous either, such as Chinese medicine and Chinese martial arts Kung fu have been heavily influenced by Indian culture. Even Chinese people record Kung Fu was brought to them by an Indian monk Bodhidharma.

While China certainly developed some very useful technologies like paper, mechanical clocks and spectacles, in terms of major production technologies it lagged behind India. For example they could not perform more advanced chemical operations like extract zinc from its ore, and they eventually learned it from India in the middle ages. This is why if we look at economic history India was ahead in production output over China, and goods produced in India enjoyed better status.

China also lacked heavily behind India in philosophy. Philosophy in China did not get the same patronage by the state, in fact there was incidents were thousands of scribes were buried to death by the emperor. The Chinese were highly practical, so did not focus too much on developing philosophy of science, epistemology and logic. Although there was briefly a school of names it did not flourish. In contrast, India developed a very sophisticated tradition of logic, epistemology and linguistics. Nothing even remotely close was developed in China. It is due to this, why Indian intellectual culture dominated the Chinese and the Chinese traveled to India to learn.

Therefore, I would not say China actually outsmarted India, in fact it is the other way around, India outsmarted China. This is not to undermine China though, I have a lot of respect for Chinese civilization and I think it comes a very close second to India
this was what i had in my mind when i joined this forum but most of them are not facts.


show me evidences that kung fu, chinese medicine , were learnt from indians.

a mere line typed is no evidence and please do not start abusing other western historians as even chinese contributions were explored by a british Dr Joseph Needham.



and finally, arab chronicles mention chinese porcelain as having high status and value., what have they said for indian cotton and steel ?


it is so sad that instead of answering such questions, people get emotional which clouds their reason.

the thing is apart from steel and zinc metallurgy, medicinal things and maths, there is no technical area where indians surpassed chinese.
avantivarman is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:29 AM   #35
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua A View Post
I wonder why that sophistication has not rubbed of on you Please wrote more clearly and coherently
that sophistication is not with me because i am a low IQ man but that does not mean anything.


and which grammar book tells you to use second form of verb in sentence you used like " please wrote more clearly and coherently " .

If Indians were unmatched in grammar, that does not assure that every indian using writing would possess great literary skill.
avantivarman is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:33 AM   #36
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
If we are going to start debating which civilization outsmarted which then we're talking about a subjective concept which cannot be answered. We have seen many west vs east threads in this forum, and they all indicate the same thing. They can go on forever without a clear answer. I hope this does not turn into a China vs India thread. Perhaps the word outsmarted is not appropriate. Perhaps we should look at some of the objective aspects such as avoiding cultural domination, wealth, and world standings today.
sir, i am an indian hindu nationalist and if i can recognise that india was technologically less efficient than china , where is the problem ?

the thing is that some indians are emotional and are getting hurt but it is only when you know your faults, you can rise and that is why i have raised this question.
avantivarman is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:41 AM   #37
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
I was thinking of arts, literature, philosophy etc. How about India's architectural heritage, to take just one example; surely it is richer and more varied than that of China? On the other hand, Chinese porcelain is unmatched, and China has a richer heritage when it comes to painting, although Mughal miniatures and book illustrations can be exceedingly fine. The philosophical traditions of the two civilizations are much on a level I would have thought. Sculpture is not something that I know much about, except for Buddhist sculpture in China and Japan, though I am of course acquainted with Indian temple sculptures from photographs and film. Would it be true to say that in India, sculpture tends more to form part of the architectural whole?
first your last sentence is correct.

in indian arts, sculpture and architecture go hand in hand and some of the greatest temples are also greatest stores of individual yet related to temple premises sculptures.

madurai meenakshi temple is one such example where you get whooping 16,000 sculptures.



the rest is where i disagree and to avoid being controversial i think it is better to say that the reason indian architecture is varied is because of inferiority of indians as we were conquered by many foreigners.


to tell you an example, my city ( oldest of india ) has hindu architecture but since we were defeated by muslims, it has many buildings built by muslims in persian style plus in 19 th century some gothic style architecture made its way into varanasi as indians changed masters again and this time it was british.


so a tourist may feel great as he can see gothic, persian and native indian buildings in one city alone but reasons are something else.
avantivarman is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:48 AM   #38

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 10,379
Blog Entries: 11

Would you regard Mughal architecture as not being properly Indian?
Linschoten is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:48 AM   #39

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 11,122
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by avantivarman View Post
sir, i am an indian hindu nationalist and if i can recognise that india was technologically less efficient than china , where is the problem ?

the thing is that some indians are emotional and are getting hurt but it is only when you know your faults, you can rise and that is why i have raised this question.
When we make a thread on a history forum, we need to keep in mind that most of the people who study history do so because they have strong nationalistic feelings. So, we need to be culturally sensitive. The best way to do that is to use objective terminology.

Personally, I think we could all learn a lot from what you're studying, even if it means you're incorrect in your initial OP.

What I suggest is that you break this down into a study comprised of several threads. One thread could look at China's position in the world economy compared to India's. Another could compare how the two countries have developed linguistically over the centuries. Another could compare religion in the two countries, and so forth. When you have an data from all these threads, it can be used to answer this question, which covers so many different aspects and time.

The truth is, this study could turn into a book which could teach the world something.
Jake10 is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 05:59 AM   #40
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: varanasi uttar pradesh, india
Posts: 1,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
When we make a thread on a history forum, we need to keep in mind that most of the people who study history do so because they have strong nationalistic feelings. So, we need to be culturally sensitive. The best way to do that is to use objective terminology.

Personally, I think we could all learn a lot from what you're studying, even if it means you're incorrect in your initial OP.

What I suggest is that you break this down into a study comprised of several threads. One thread could look at China's position in the world economy compared to India's. Another could compare how the two countries have developed linguistically over the centuries. Another could compare religion in the two countries, and so forth. When you have an data from all these threads, it can be used to answer this question, which covers so many different aspects and time.

The truth is, this study could turn into a book which could teach the world something.
i would follow your advice sincerely but I lack on chinese history as regards religion, literature etc.

anyway, historumites will help me .
avantivarman is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
2200, china, india, outsmarted


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
india china avantivarman Asian History 147 October 25th, 2012 06:01 AM
China and India Thessalonian Asian History 15 September 22nd, 2011 11:00 AM
India - China Lord Keviv Asian History 2 September 21st, 2011 02:27 AM
China Vs. India Isoroku295 Speculative History 25 August 31st, 2011 06:34 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.