emperor of seleucid

Did those savages ruin China by refusing to keep up with technology like the Ming did and by becoming so corrupt that they couldn't modernize even after like 60 years after getting humiliated.

deke

I'm seriously getting freaked out by this post, this is extremely out of character, has your account been hijacked? If responses mirror the OP's language this thread wil get closed fast, and also for double posting when there is already an open thread on this topic. I'm outta here for today.

tengri khan

Of course not，It's manvhus who bring the largest land in all dynasties china have had.
And they didn't refuse to accept new technology.They even created a new beiyang navy force.About corruption，every dynasty got very corrupt before it collapsed，it's a circle.

stardave

Well look at it this way, they extended China's landmass like never before, and vast majority of it got pass on to modern day, not a lot of empires maintain their territorial integrity like China did, the Ottomans lost most of it, all the European empire lost all of theirs. China was able to kept most of the land except Outer Mongolia. In the old days those lands were not very useful they were nothing but buffer zones, but in the modern times, every bit and piece helps, because of what is potentially hidden underground.

So in that aspect, Qing did China good, laid out good foundation for future development.

Bart Dale

The later Qing dynaty did have a lot of corruption, which hurt its effort to modernize, but the Ming had its own share of corruption, which helped the Qing come to power in the first place.

I haven't any evidence presented that the Ming would have done a better job at modernizing.

mingming

I predict this thread will turn into another "is the Qing Chinese" flamefest. Actually the OP already started it by calling the Manchus "savages".

Gorge123

*groan* this thread will probably end up with the similar to the other threads: Were the Ming and Yuan Chinese? and the thread Adam Smiths description of China. And Bo_Wong will start talking nonsense.

mybasswood

In fact,this is a very slowly process.
as a chinese, like and love chinese culture, and learn and read chinese culture.
in chinese history, only have 2 other races dominion the chinaland.
From the Yuan(元朝) Dynasty, not only the culture strong damage , but also the institution from the open to closed, although Yuan only have 90 years.
after Yuan Dynasty. the clutre have breaks and cracks and confusion, many ancient books were lose.
although the Ming Dynasty sort out and collect the ancient books try his best, but still not back to the old lever. the institution became more and more closed.
in Qing, this dynasty inherit the Ming dynasty institution, bug became most and most closed.
i thins you all konw the chinese clutre: the poetry of the Tang Dynasty(唐诗),the poetry of the Song Dynasty, the sanqu [散曲] of the Yuan Dynasty, the novel of the Ming and Qing Dynasty.
the poetry of the Tang Dynasty and the poetry of the Song Dynasty: are all play and sing every where.
the sanqu [散曲] of the Yuan Dynasty: are all paly and sing in theater.
the novel of the Qing Dynasty: are only write , do't sing and play. when had write a rebellion meaning or rebellion word are whole families of some of those ministers executed.

although not exactlly , but this is the big trend. in upon Dynasty, from the beginning and the middle and the end , also have the same process: from the strict to the loosen.

Wenge

The Manchurians could not have ruined China because China did not exist as an independent entity during the Manchurian period.

mybasswood

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this explain make me feel that you don't know the china history.