Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 17th, 2013, 08:05 PM   #1
Archivist
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 111
Question Mao Zedong or Chiang Kai-Shek?


Which one would you think would've lead China to a better future? The communist government under Mao Zedong or the decentralized democracy under Chiang Kai-Shek?
Qianlong is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 17th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,044

it was unclear what a Chaing win would look like, he was being pulled by different factions while in China and more or less ran a democracy after WW2, but after getting to Taiwan he ran a very centralized dictatorship for the rest of his life.
RollingWave is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 08:38 PM   #3

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 10,419
Blog Entries: 3

If Chian Kai Shek had won, the role of China in world arfairs would have been very much reversed. China would have been opposed by the Soviet Union, which means communism would have lurked in her underground, and she would have been supported by the US. Industrially speaking, China would have likely made better progress, while militarily she would not have become a nuclear power until much later on.

It is highly likely that China would have become the second biggest economy instead of Japan, as much of Japanese manufacturing would have instead come from China, and the older culture would have been well preserved under Chiang. It is very difficult to predict this, however, because it would have affected the entire world. There would only have been one Korea, and the Vietnam might never have become communist. What would this have done in Asia? That would depend largely on the response of the USSR.
Jake10 is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #4

fangqingming's Avatar
history princess
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: dragon's area
Posts: 2,803

Quote:
the decentralized democracy under Chiang Kai-Shek?
XD.

did there have democracy under chiang kai-shek?
fangqingming is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 09:38 PM   #5
rawr
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: Los Santos, San Andreas
Posts: 4,428

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
it was unclear what a Chaing win would look like, he was being pulled by different factions while in China and more or less ran a democracy after WW2, but after getting to Taiwan he ran a very centralized dictatorship for the rest of his life.
Agree completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
If Chian Kai Shek had won, the role of China in world arfairs would have been very much reversed. China would have been opposed by the Soviet Union, which means communism would have lurked in her underground, and she would have been supported by the US. Industrially speaking, China would have likely made better progress, while militarily she would not have become a nuclear power until much later on.

It is highly likely that China would have become the second biggest economy instead of Japan, as much of Japanese manufacturing would have instead come from China, and the older culture would have been well preserved under Chiang. It is very difficult to predict this, however, because it would have affected the entire world. There would only have been one Korea, and the Vietnam might never have become communist. What would this have done in Asia? That would depend largely on the response of the USSR.
This is all just speculation. There is no reason to believe that Chiang could hold onto power even if he had won. The economy suffered from severe hyperinflation (Taiwan was saved because it had a different currency), and there were too many different factions that Chiang needed to appease. Communism appealed to the countryside much, much more so the popular support would not be there. Chiang had his chance on the mainland but he blew it.
mingming is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #6

Jinit's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: India
Posts: 3,105
Blog Entries: 1

I can't find the exact quote but I read somewhere that ironically present day china is much closer to what Chiang kai shek's vision than that of the Mao's vision & Chiang Kai-shek's ghost must be wandering round China smiling in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision.
Jinit is online now  
Old January 17th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #7
rawr
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: Los Santos, San Andreas
Posts: 4,428

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
I can't find the exact quote but I read somewhere that ironically present day china is much closer to what Chiang kai shek's vision than that of the Mao's vision & Chiang Kai-shek's ghost must be wandering round China smiling in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision.
This is actually what Jay Taylor concluded in his biography of Chiang Kai-shek, The Generalissimo:

Most of all, Chiang would be pleased with what he would see as the Peking regime’s unofficial but clear confirmation of his and Sun Yat-sen’s belief that communism was not and is not compatible with Chinese society or temperament—or indeed with human nature. He would be especially gratified to learn that in answer to the mainland’s post-Mao lack of an effective ethical philosophy, religion, or ideology, the new CCP has replaced class struggle, a propertyless society, and world revolution with nationalism and the ancient teachings of Confucius—both once again drawing on China’s rich culture and extraordinary history to define the country’s moral and ethical center. Thus Chiang would almost certainly see the new Chinese leaders as modern Confucianists, dedicated as he was to making China a well-regulated, harmonious, stable, and prosperous society as well as a powerful and avowedly peaceful actor on the world stage....

Still, if Chiang could see modern China’s nascent and slowly expanding although well-controlled civil society, its towering cities, and its other modern achievements, he might believe that his long-planned, seemingly fanciful counterattack had succeeded and that his successors had recovered the mainland. Truly, the vision that drives modern China in the twenty-first century is that of Chiang Kai-shek, not Mao Zedong.
mingming is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #8

AlpinLuke's Avatar
Knight-errant
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Lago Maggiore, Italy
Posts: 8,949
Blog Entries: 12

It's a good question.

I would give a comprehensive answer:

in the brief term Mao didn't give to continental China the future Communism promised, on the contrary. China knew tremendous difficulties in following the socialist example of Moscow.

While Chiang Kai-Shek didn't follow a "total ideology", so that we should compare him to the other leaders of his time. Not on an ideological level.

Anyway in the long term China has developed a lot and very well, reaching an advanced condition of a growing industrial country.

But, is this later development Mao's merit? I doubt. In a certain measure Mao has been "retired" from a historical point in China, like Stalin in former USSR.

So at the end my choice is Chiang Kai-Shek.
AlpinLuke is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #9

Wenge's Avatar
American
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: The True Capital of China
Posts: 7,568

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
I can't find the exact quote but I read somewhere that ironically present day china is much closer to what Chiang kai shek's vision than that of the Mao's vision & Chiang Kai-shek's ghost must be wandering round China smiling in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision.
Here you go!

Chiang is now increasingly perceived as a man simply overwhelmed by the events in China, having to fight simultaneously Communists, Japanese and provincial warlords while having to reconstruct and unify the country. His sincere, albeit often unsuccessful attempts to build a more powerful nation have been noted by scholars such as Jonathan Fenby and Rana Mitter. Mitter has observed that, ironically, today's China is closer to Chiang's vision than to Mao Zedong's. He argues that the Communists, since the 1980s, have essentially created the state envisioned by Chiang in the 1930s. Mitter concludes by writing that "one can imagine Chiang Kai-shek's ghost wandering round China today nodding in approval, while Mao's ghost follows behind him, moaning at the destruction of his vision".

Chiang Kai-shek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fraters Libertas: Ghosts of the Palace Guard
Wenge is offline  
Old January 17th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #10

fangqingming's Avatar
history princess
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: dragon's area
Posts: 2,803

chiang's wish is only in his diary and maps. ha~~

paint one false blueprint for common people, is different with do it really for people.
fangqingming is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
chiang, kaishek, mao, zedong


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chiang Kai-Shek KickKickWhales2 Asian History 41 January 26th, 2013 07:09 PM
What Chian Kai Shek Surrendered to Japan? mister Speculative History 29 October 10th, 2012 05:01 PM
Your Thoughts on Mao Zedong Salah Asian History 88 July 10th, 2011 02:34 PM
Project on Mao Zedong, What should I include? XoDiSS Asian History 22 June 25th, 2009 09:06 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.