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Old January 13th, 2018, 05:11 AM   #231

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you are a pity and crazy dog in the wrong side.Everyone knows what the Japs has down to Korea and China in WW2.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 03:48 AM   #232

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Yet countries that weren't communist were often lagging in modernization as well.

And South Korea's modernization was pretty late as well, much like Taiwan and Singapore.
Someone claimed that capitalism had nothing to do with it. I was denying that. I'm not saying that capitalism was the only reason.

Look at what these countries went through. It's no surprise that they modernized late when compared to the Western countries and Japan. But when they modernized, their rate of modernization was faster than any other countries did previously.

These countries modernized earlier than the former communist countries did. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore would be very poor if they have communist systems. I can't help thinking this way because I remember how Asia was like during the 1980s. My friends from China who remember the effects of Mao's policies tell me the same thing about communism. They experienced the hardships during the 1970s even years after Mao's rule. People who don't remember those times or were never in Asia at that time take for granted Asia's wealth now.

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Is this during Kim Dae-jung's administration?
It was during the 1990s - Kim Young-sam and Kim Dae-jung. I think it began as early as Roh Tae-woo's administration, too.

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Let's look at the non-communist and relatively democratic states in Asia:
Thailand, India, the Philippines, and Indonesia are never communist and currently newly industrialized countries (NIC),
Then, why has China surpassed India in all socio-economic parameters in the last two decades?
China isn't even using a communist system now. Their rate of modernization began to increase considerably when they adapted the capitalist system (although the Communist Party owns everything in China, compared to the Cold War era, China is pretty much capitalist now). I started to travel to China in 1995, which was after China began to be capitalist. I can tell the difference from how China is now.

Last edited by Blue; January 14th, 2018 at 04:13 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:13 AM   #233

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Someone claimed that capitalism had nothing to do with it. I was denying that. I'm not saying that capitalism was the only reason.

Look at what these countries went through. It's no surprise that they modernized late when compared to the Western countries and Japan. But when they modernized, their rate of modernization was faster than any other countries did previously.

These countries modernized earlier than the former communist countries did. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore would be very poor if they have communist systems. I can't help thinking this way because I remember how Asia was like during the 1980s. My friends from China who remember the effects of Mao's policies tell me the same thing about communism. They experienced the hardships during the 1970s even years after it happened. People who don't remember those times or were never in Asia at that time take for granted Asia's wealth now.


It was during the 1990s - Kim Young-sam and Kim Dae-jung. I think it began as early as Roh Tae-woo's administration, too.


China isn't even using a communist system now. Their rate of modernization began to increase considerably when they adapted the capitalist system. I started to travel to China in 1995, which was after China began to be capitalist. I can tell the difference from how China is now.
One thing you have to notice: those Asian countries developed under State Capitalism. They didn't follow the liberal economic/minimal government model that many Western economists nowadays, and many Anglo-Saxon politicians as well, claim as the only model for economic development in the world.

The main driver for the economic development in China in the last 30 years or so is the State and their State-owned industries and corporations, not exactly on the private sector. China, and many East Asian countries are not Communist in the economic sense, but they are neither classically capitalist.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:17 AM   #234

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One thing you have to notice: those Asian countries developed under State Capitalism. They didn't follow the liberal economic/minimal government model that many Western economists nowadays, and many Anglo-Saxon politicians as well, claim as the only model for economic development in the world.

The main driver for the economic development in China in the last 30 years or so is the State and their State-owned industries and corporations, not exactly on the private sector. China, and many East Asian countries are not Communist in the economic sense, but they are neither classically capitalist.
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore aren't state-owned industries and corporations. The government did support them in the past, but they didn't own those companies. At least I know that the South Korean companies were never state-owned. And I'm sure you know what I mean when I'm comparing the Communist and the Capitalist Chinese systems. There's a significant difference.

Last edited by Blue; January 14th, 2018 at 04:25 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:28 AM   #235
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The tendency I noticed is that strong governmental control (as long as it isn't overly corrupt) is beneficial during the rebuilding/modernisation phase, but liberal practices are more optimal when economy becomes competitive with other countries'.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:42 AM   #236

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I am not sure if Taiwan is actually more advanced than China. Hong Kong is definitely NOT more advanced than China.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:49 AM   #237

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Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore aren't state-owned industries and corporations. The government did support them in the past, but they didn't own those companies. At least I know that the South Korean companies were never state-owned.
Major industries in Singapore and Taiwan were in fact state-owned during its developing phase. Even if some of those countries didn't rely on nationalizations, the government nonetheless had enormous control over the corporation and established policies, guidelines and business plans and practices that were mandatory and should be followed by the corporations and private businesses - this was very far away from the economic freedom and the "small government" economic model defended by many economists and governments in English-speaking countries. Those East Asian countries even established 5-year plans over the industry and economic activity.


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And I'm sure you know what I mean when I'm comparing the Communist and the Capitalist Chinese systems. There's a significant difference.
Of course, There are also significant differences in Capitalist systems as well.

Last edited by robto; January 14th, 2018 at 04:52 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 04:53 AM   #238

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I am not sure if Taiwan is actually more advanced than China. Hong Kong is definitely NOT more advanced than China.
See the GNI per capita of those countries in the World Bank website. Taiwan and Hong Kong are definitely more advanced on that regard.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 06:59 AM   #239

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See the GNI per capita of those countries in the World Bank website. Taiwan and Hong Kong are definitely more advanced on that regard.
That's one measure of advancement, but no reason to use that as the only measure. As you say, HK and TW are more advanced in that regard, but neither are overall more advanced than China. Are Qatar and Macau more advanced than the US? In GNI per cap terms, yes, but they are not more advanced than the US at all.

Hong Kong is not economically diverse, and is wholly dependent on China for mere survival. Its undiversified economy won't function without consumers and businesses, who contribute the most to Hong Kong. Taiwan sees exceptionally high emigration rate to the Mainland because that's where the opportunities are. What about using overall level of advancement? I cannot place Qatar, Macau, and Luxbg above the US.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 05:56 PM   #240

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Thank you for reminding me.I will not do that again.
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