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Old September 16th, 2015, 06:37 PM   #51

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All the respondents to this question basically overvalued and emphasized too much the very abstract cultural factor.

You guys should pay attention to more important causes like the specific economic policies, unique historical circumstances, institutional reforms, geopolitics and also individual decisions of the respective countries leaders.

Saying that the Chinese or Japanese are more hard workers than Filipinos or the Vietnamese, IMHO, is a preposterous and inaccurate assumption to make.

Filipinos work hard, if not harder than most people from first world Asian countries.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 06:39 PM   #52
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South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore are the only advance countries. I wouldn't consider China to be advance.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 06:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robto View Post
All the respondents to this question basically overvalued and emphasized too much the very abstract cultural factor.

You guys should pay attention to more important causes like the specific economic policies, unique historical circumstances, institutional reforms, geopolitics and also individual decisions of the respective countries leaders.

Saying that the Chinese or Japanese are more hard workers than Filipinos or the Vietnamese, IMHO, is a preposterous and inaccurate assumption to make.

Filipinos work hard, if not harder than most people from first world Asian countries.
Good reply robto, I feel that certain people here have a very strong Northeast Asian bias, you know what I mean.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #54
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It is simply because of culture that is brought about by the climate and topography of the territories. Nations like China, Japan and South Korea had been fairly having advanced civilization since ancient days that are akin to western achievements in human history like invention of things that contributes to advancement of civilization. Like gun powder, medicine and alloy are attributes of these East Asian nations, and the common factor of them with the western nations is weather.

The southeast Asians during earlier times like pre colonial period save for tribal wars were practically living in paradise. One just neded to climb a tree to eat fruit and deficate it in any land and so a new fruit bearing tree is going to thrive. Fish can easily be gathered in nearby rivers and seas so the staple food for their protein is highly accessible. The warm weather makes it so nice to sleep in a hut during noon time after eating thus breeding the culture of laziness. The land is so fertile that there was no need to use technology to harvest grains in order to feed each family need for carbohydrates. Hence the simplicity in the perception of life by the southeast Asians as compared to East Asians.

Capitalism is only for the industrialists and southeast Asian nations were under the colonial powers for a long time and the local leaders who emerged when these nations became independent after ww2 were the new tyrants emulating the ways of their former colonial masters. Marcos was one example in the case of the Philippines. However, new world order is now into the nerves of these people and soon they will rise up but not in our lifetime folks. The cultural baggage is a huge thing.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 07:13 PM   #55
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I just want to add that while Singapore can be leveled to the situation of Japan and South Korea in terms of economic power and wealth and it is a southeast Asian state, it is so peculiar because it is actually a city-state of immigrants and influence of the British empire the way such was done over hong kong is a factor all together with it being a nanny state.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 03:48 AM   #56
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I just want to add that while Singapore can be leveled to the situation of Japan and South Korea in terms of economic power and wealth and it is a southeast Asian state, it is so peculiar because it is actually a city-state of immigrants and influence of the British empire the way such was done over hong kong is a factor all together with it being a nanny state.
What is this British influence on Singapore that you are talking about that help it prosper?
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Old September 17th, 2015, 05:55 AM   #57

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It is simply because of culture that is brought about by the climate and topography of the territories. Nations like China, Japan and South Korea had been fairly having advanced civilization since ancient days that are akin to western achievements in human history like invention of things that contributes to advancement of civilization. Like gun powder, medicine and alloy are attributes of these East Asian nations, and the common factor of them with the western nations is weather.

The southeast Asians during earlier times like pre colonial period save for tribal wars were practically living in paradise. One just neded to climb a tree to eat fruit and deficate it in any land and so a new fruit bearing tree is going to thrive. Fish can easily be gathered in nearby rivers and seas so the staple food for their protein is highly accessible. The warm weather makes it so nice to sleep in a hut during noon time after eating thus breeding the culture of laziness. The land is so fertile that there was no need to use technology to harvest grains in order to feed each family need for carbohydrates. Hence the simplicity in the perception of life by the southeast Asians as compared to East Asians.

Capitalism is only for the industrialists and southeast Asian nations were under the colonial powers for a long time and the local leaders who emerged when these nations became independent after ww2 were the new tyrants emulating the ways of their former colonial masters. Marcos was one example in the case of the Philippines. However, new world order is now into the nerves of these people and soon they will rise up but not in our lifetime folks. The cultural baggage is a huge thing.
But culture is completely malleable. It change when circumstances changes.
IMO, I think culture is more of an outcome rather than a cause of economic underdevelopment.

Taiwan's climate is not that cold or different than the climate of the Philippines, for example. Hong Kong or Singapore are actually very tropical too. And other countries such as Mongolia, Nepal or North Korea are far more temperate and cold.

Climate is only relevant if we're talking about pre-modern civilizations. But in the industrial and post-industrial era we're living nowadays, the climacteric factor is irrelevant.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 06:19 AM   #58
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What is this British influence on Singapore that you are talking about that help it prosper?
The developmental plans of the infrastructure of the City of Singapore was crafted by a British Architect way back in colonial period which is the platform of the railway system and the entire commercial and industrial sites of it. I just forgot the name of that architect. Development of a particular nation does not happen overnight.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 06:35 AM   #59
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I don't think there is a single explanation for the rise of Japan, Korea and Taiwan and the alleged failure of Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines.

As for Japan, there is one line of arguments that concerns Japan's relatively sophisticated economy prior to 1868. The Japanese had bookkeeping techniques, complex and highly integrated financial and product markets, a culture of technical learning and knowledge keeping as well as a pretty effective economic policy in regard to trade regulation and import substitution. Contrary to the common believe, it was far from secluded from the rest of the world and maintained trade relations throughout the Edo period. Japanese economic historians thus have changed the classic periodization of Japanese history that had Japanese modernity beginning in 1868 to 1600.
A Dutch economic historian has estimated global levels of institutional efficiency on three dimensions: property rights, market integration, and labor market penetration and he also estimated human capital formation on the dimensions of literacy and book production. He came to the conclusion that of all regions outside of Europe, Japan was the only one that was close to Europe in all and the only one that was better than Europe in at least one measure, the one of market integration. Book production, for example, was markedly higher than in many other regions and the contents were much more often of practical use than in other cultures, where religious writings dominated. There is, for example, a huge edition of agricultural works I happened to work with in the past, the so called n˘sho, which are remarkably boring to read, but exhibit a high level knowledge of agricultural techniques based on regional differences in climate, soil composition, vegetation, tools etc. Another region relatively developed on these measures was China, but it was still quite far behind Japan and Europe. India, South East Asia and other regions are said to have been much less developed.
I would take this with a grain of salt, especially since research on these dimensions about other regions than Europa and Japan is relatively scarce and the author was far from being an expert in any non European region. But as a general tendency it seems not too far fetched that Japan might have started with the advantage of its well developed economy before Meiji into its modernization.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 06:35 AM   #60
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But culture is completely malleable. It change when circumstances changes.
IMO, I think culture is more of an outcome rather than a cause of economic underdevelopment.

Taiwan's climate is not that cold or different than the climate of the Philippines, for example. Hong Kong or Singapore are actually very tropical too. And other countries such as Mongolia, Nepal or North Korea are far more temperate and cold.

Climate is only relevant if we're talking about pre-modern civilizations. But in the industrial and post-industrial era we're living nowadays, the climacteric factor is irrelevant.
Oh for sure the climate now is immaterial in the cultural makeup of the inhabitants but the manner ways and the culture itself was developed by a particular group of ethnicity did not happen in just a century. It was molded by multitudes of generations of people. Citing Taiwan is not really that valid argument because it carries the Chinese culture which is from temperate region. Hong Kong is part of China and Singapore as I'd stated was developed by the British the way Hawaii was for the Americans.

Mongolia was a power before as the nation of Genghis Khan and Nepal has no water to explore the way the Balkans of Europe are situated.

Again, I am in full agreement with you that modernity has changed the ways of mankind and soon the culture that these people from the tropics developed because of their situation prior to age of this modern way of life that is brought about by the industrial revolution and the new world order, are going to adopt to the demands of the situation. But like what I stated, that cultural baggage is really heavy,

Filipinos abroad are very industrious and that is because they have to do it and are already assimilated to the culture of the people with whom the work with. Try to mingle the ordinary Filipinos in the Philippines who remained to stay in this country of mine either by choice because they are living comfortably or by accident because they don't have the choice and these people are mostly lazy and have a lot of vices which starts with heavy consumption of alcohol and tobacco, cock fighting, womanizing, lots of variety of gambling, use of drugs specially meth etc, which is the reason of the politicians easily corrupting them by way of vote buying during elections. However, things are getting better now as compared thirty or twenty years ago because justice appears to be equally applied both to the rich and the poor. Powerful corrupt politicians are in jail now and that never happened before specially during the time of Marcos.

As I stated, culture is not developed overnight. In the same vein that democracy is not accepted in the Middle East due to cultural barrier. But that is going to change in due time.
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