Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


View Poll Results: Are the Pakistanis Indians?
Pakistanis are culturally Indian. 12 10.34%
Pakistanis aren't culturally Indian. 24 20.69%
Pakistanis are culturally and historically Indian. 63 54.31%
Pakistanis aren't culturally and historically Indian. 17 14.66%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 4th, 2014, 03:40 AM   #21

tornada's Avatar
Wind Lord
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: India
Posts: 15,154
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by anusername View Post
Yes,I read,If Indians OF THE OP mean the Historical "India",then it's not a question.Why he asked so easy question?Of course they are from same British India.

What he asked aslo mean :
Are India Indus and Pakistan MSL same people?
Are
India Indus and Pakistan MSL share same history?

The answer is NO.
MSL??? What does that mean?

And India, Indus and Pakistan do happened to share the same history right upto 1947, and even then one cannot study modern Indian History without significant focus on Pakistan or Modern Pakistani History without India, Ditto for Bangladesh and Pakistan. At one point of time they were all Pakistanis but post 73 they were not
tornada is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 4th, 2014, 03:45 AM   #22

anusername's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: Beijing China
Posts: 331

Quote:
Originally Posted by tornada View Post
MSL??? What does that mean?

And India, Indus and Pakistan do happened to share the same history right upto 1947, and even then one cannot study modern Indian History without significant focus on Pakistan or Modern Pakistani History without India, Ditto for Bangladesh and Pakistan. At one point of time they were all Pakistanis but post 73 they were not
They share part history,but not include the history before Mughals and the history after British.
anusername is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 03:58 AM   #23

Jinit's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: India
Posts: 5,268
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by anusername View Post
They share part history,but not include the history before Mughals and the history after British.
No thats incorrect. Atleast upto the 11th century even the NWFP shared the same culture and history as the rest of the India. Lets not forget that Pakistan wasn't created because of the separate ethnicity/culture/history but for the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent.

Last edited by Jinit; January 4th, 2014 at 04:07 AM.
Jinit is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 04:21 AM   #24

tornada's Avatar
Wind Lord
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: India
Posts: 15,154
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by anusername View Post
They share part history,but not include the history before Mughals and the history after British.
They actually do share history before the Mughals as well.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara]Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire]Kushan Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
.
Indo-Greek Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
File:Indo-Greeks 100bc.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire]Gupta Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurya_Empire]Maurya Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Sultanate]Delhi Sultanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

As you can see, they were part of the Indian Cultural milieu, Northern Indian Empires part of the Indian Historical tapestry since well before the Mughals, going back all the way to the Gandharas of the Mahajanpadas. And needless to say the Indus Valley Civilization was spread across Pakistan and India and even parts of Afghanistan
tornada is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 05:51 AM   #25

Shaheen's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Sweden
Posts: 2,450

Well Pakistan shares its history both ways, and thats what I mean when I earlier said that it was a border region that belonged to two worlds. Rather than writing a long boring post, il just post images of maps of various empires that have ruled over present day Pakistan to get the point across:

- Indus Valley Civilization (ca 3300 to 1300 BC:

Click the image to open in full size.

- After this you have various small kingdoms emerging like Gandhara and Kambojas

- Achaemenid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Alexanders Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Maurya Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Indo Greek Kingdoms

Click the image to open in full size.

- Indo Scythians

Click the image to open in full size.

- Kushanas

Click the image to open in full size.

- Gupta Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Sassanid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Arab Caliphates

Click the image to open in full size.

- Saffarid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Ghaznavid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Delhi Sultunate

Click the image to open in full size.

- Mughal Empire

Click the image to open in full size.
Shaheen is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 05:53 AM   #26

Shaheen's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Sweden
Posts: 2,450

- Afsharid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Durrani Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Sikh Empire + Sindh and Kalat

Click the image to open in full size.

- British India

Click the image to open in full size.
Shaheen is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 05:56 AM   #27

tornada's Avatar
Wind Lord
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: India
Posts: 15,154
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaheen View Post
Well Pakistan shares its history both ways, and thats what I mean when I earlier said that it was a border region that belonged to two worlds. Rather than writing a long boring post, il just post images of maps of various empires that have ruled over present day Pakistan to get the point across:

- Indus Valley Civilization (ca 3300 to 1300 BC:

Click the image to open in full size.

- After this you have various small kingdoms emerging like Gandhara and Kambojas

- Achaemenid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Alexanders Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Maurya Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Indo Greek Kingdoms

Click the image to open in full size.

- Indo Scythians

Click the image to open in full size.

- Kushanas

Click the image to open in full size.

- Gupta Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Sassanid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Arab Caliphates

Click the image to open in full size.

- Saffarid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Ghaznavid Empire

Click the image to open in full size.

- Delhi Sultunate

Click the image to open in full size.

- Mughal Empire

Click the image to open in full size.
Good post


Which is why i prefer to use the Indus Valley as the boundary of Ancient India and Afghanistan. As you can see, quite a few major empires ended along the Indus region, which is quite a formidable natural boundary.


To my mind, Ancient India can be said to encompass the Subcontinent, from the Indus to the Brahmaputra, south of the Himalayas.


Thus Pakistan, and many Pakistanis share a history with India, and the regions beyond the Indus (within Pakistan) were certainly quite heavily influenced even if we assume they are not Indian. It should also be remembered that throughout the ancient period, the plains of Punjab and the flatlands in the eastern part of the country would have hosted a higher population than the mountainous and dry Northern and Western regions
tornada is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 05:57 AM   #28

Shaheen's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Sweden
Posts: 2,450

I think its quite clear from looking at these maps that throughout history Pakistan has been a border region, sometimes part of the Iran-Afghan/Middle Eastern world and sometimes part of the Indian/South Asian world. Consequently cultural and ethnic influences come from both sides.
Shaheen is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 05:59 AM   #29

tornada's Avatar
Wind Lord
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: India
Posts: 15,154
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaheen View Post
Well Pakistan shares its history both ways, and thats what I mean when I earlier said that it was a border region that belonged to two worlds. Rather than writing a long boring post, il just post images of maps of various empires that have ruled over present day Pakistan to get the point across:

- Indus Valley Civilization (ca 3300 to 1300 BC:

Click the image to open in full size.
It should however be pointed out that the Map of the Indus Valley is a bit dated. We know know that the extent of the IVC, in its mature phase, was as far east as Delhi and Eastern UP. Thus the map should ideally extend a little further Eastwards. Possibly it should extend a little more westwards as well, but there is little Archaeology happening in Pakistan these days, and it would be difficult to verify new IVC sites.
tornada is offline  
Old January 4th, 2014, 06:01 AM   #30

Shaheen's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Sweden
Posts: 2,450

Quote:
Originally Posted by tornada View Post
Good post


Which is why i prefer to use the Indus Valley as the boundary of Ancient India and Afghanistan. As you can see, quite a few major empires ended along the Indus region, which is quite a formidable natural boundary.


To my mind, Ancient India can be said to encompass the Subcontinent, from the Indus to the Brahmaputra, south of the Himalayas.


Thus Pakistan, and many Pakistanis share a history with India, and the regions beyond the Indus (within Pakistan) were certainly quite heavily influenced even if we assume they are not Indian. It should also be remembered that throughout the ancient period, the plains of Punjab and the flatlands in the eastern part of the country would have hosted a higher population than the mountainous and dry Northern and Western regions
True, I mean I think as has been implied already in this thread, there is no clear cut boundary. There is no exact point at which people become indic and iranic. So for example remains of Zoroastrian temples have been found as far east as Punjab whereas Buddhist temples existed as far west as Bamyan. But generally speaking it was indeed the Indus that seems to be the boundary between the two worlds.
Shaheen is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
indians, pakistanis



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you know about Mapuche indians? Jes American History 5 October 3rd, 2017 12:59 PM
American Indians vs. Asian Indians Thessalonian Speculative History 56 September 21st, 2015 11:10 PM
Indians and Indians beeh Asian History 28 July 17th, 2013 08:45 PM
Difference between Pakistanis and Indians ... Greenblood07 Asian History 26 July 2nd, 2012 12:19 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.