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Old September 30th, 2014, 10:48 PM   #51

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This article is just racist and has no valuable information.Pashtuns fought against the Mongols in many battles and even defeated them in Parwan.
Yes, the article appears to be written by Tajiks or Hazaras, and is quite one-sided - I apologize for that.

However the extensive borrowings of Mongol words, culture and customs into Pashtun culture despite no direct ethnic or genetic affinity, are present for all to see and remain quite remarkable.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 01:09 AM   #52

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Yes, the article appears to be written by Tajiks or Hazaras, and is quite one-sided - I apologize for that.

However the extensive borrowings of Mongol words, culture and customs into Pashtun culture despite no direct ethnic or genetic affinity, are present for all to see and remain quite remarkable.
Pashto has very few Mongol words and most of them are military terms.I even doubt this are real Mongol words and they are rather of Turkish origin but their number is very small.Pashto even has much more Arabic,persian or english loanwords.Pashtuns were not much influenced by Mongols and Mongols failed to subjugate all pashtuns tribes .I don't know any pashtuns customs or traditions which were borrowed by Mongols.Actually the Mongols left almost no cultural and linguistic influences in Afghanistan/Pakistan.The Mongols were mostly persianized or turkized and their modern descendants in Afghanistan the Hazaras are fully persianized.Turks influenced pashtuns much more but they are not Mongols and Turks and Mongols are different.

Last edited by Viraspa; October 1st, 2014 at 01:41 AM.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 02:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by sonofstars View Post
Yes, the article appears to be written by Tajiks or Hazaras, and is quite one-sided - I apologize for that.

However the extensive borrowings of Mongol words, culture and customs into Pashtun culture despite no direct ethnic or genetic affinity, are present for all to see and remain quite remarkable.
The Mongols were just one of the people who belonged to the steppe nomadic civilizations just like ancient Turks, Scythians, Sarmatians, Magyars...
However these people were still totally different from each other but their common feature was their steppe nomad pastoralist life. Of course these former steppe nomads have nothing to do with each other today

The biggest Pashtun tribal confederacy, the Sarbanis are of Scythian origin

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Sarbans or Sarbani are the largest[1] tribal group of Pashtuns. They are situated in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Sarbans include many Pashtun tribes, among whom the most numerous are the Durrani, Shinwari, Yusufzai, Mohmand, Kasi, Khalil, Tareen, Miani and Ormur tribes. The Pashtun nation class themselves as the descendants of Saraban through his two sons, Sharjyun and Khrishyun. From Sharjyun there sprung five clans, the principal of which is called Sheordni. From Khrishyun there sprung three clans, namely, Kand, Zcamand, and Kansi.[2]


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The origin of the Sarbans, might be connected with Hephthalites,[13] who had a large nomadic confederation that included present-day Afghanistan and Pakistan in the 5th-6th centuries AD, as well as with Scythians,[14] who are known to have settled where most of Pashtuns live today.

The Durrani Empire that existed in the 18th-19th centuries and that was centered in the territory of present-day Afghanistan and Pakistan was founded by the Ahmad Shah Durrani, a Pashtun military commander under Nader Shah of Persia and chief of the Abdali Sarban tribe. Since that time, the Abdali tribe is known as Durrani.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbans

Last edited by Temple of time; October 1st, 2014 at 02:49 PM.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 02:53 PM   #54
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The name Ghilzai sounds similar to the Turkish Khalaj but it is very unlikely that modern Ghilzai are direct descendants of Turkish tribes.The Turkish Khalaj in India and Afghanistan were described as pseudo-Turks and the "real" Turks considered them as foreigners.They were called Afghans and it seems that they were rather hunnified/turkified Hepthalites/Sakas.Many nomadic Iranic tribes were turkified and adopted Turkish names and culture.Modern Ghilzai look not different from other pashtuns and have almost the same dna.But pashtuns were influenced by Turkish people and adopted some words from them.
The Turks considered them as foreginers because they intermarried with Pashtuns and became totally Pashtunized after a while. That doesn't change the fact that Khiljis were of Turkic origin. Even today there are some 20.000 Khalaj speakers in Iran.

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Before their expansion into India, the Khalji people were mainly concentrated in Turkestan.[19][20][21] In the writings of Al-Biruni, Ibn-Batuta, Ibn-Khaldun, Al-Khwarezmi, Masudi, Varahamihira and in Hudud al-'alam, they are presented as a group of Turkic origin which formed one of the older members of the Hephthalite confederation, and included many nomads near Bactria (in Turfan) and east of modern Ghazni. Many migrated to various parts of Persia, including to parts of what are now Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, then under the control of the Ghaznavids.[22] In Iran they migrated mainly to Pars, where they settled an isolated region which is called today Khaljistan ("land of Khaljis"). However, Persian-speakers in Iran also used the term Khalji to describe nomads of Turkic background in their country.[22] The Khaljis began to become Pashtunized (Afghanized) since the 8th century and later known as Ghilzais, part of the Pashtun ethnic group.[23]

The official and court language of the Khilji dynasty was Perso-Arabic.[1] The co-existence of different languages gave birth to an early form of Urdu.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilji_dynasty


A Turkic gene doesn't exist. All Turkic groups resemble genetically their neighbors. Chuvashs are genetically the closest to Russians, Turks are genetically closer to Circassians, Kurds, Armenians...and Yakuts are genetically the closest to Buryats and Evenks.

Last edited by Temple of time; October 1st, 2014 at 03:09 PM.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 03:04 PM   #55

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The Turks considered them as foreginers because they intermarried with Pashtuns and became totally Pashtunized after a while.



Khilji dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ghilzai are pashtuns and not Turks.Ghilzai look exact the same like other pashtuns.I not deny that some turks were assimilated by pashtuns but they were a very small number and even when the modern name Ghilzai is of Turkish origin this would be not an evidence for an Turkish origin of Ghilzai.Many people adopted names from other unrelated people and the Hepthalites,who spoke east iranic languages,called themself Huns but were iranic.Some pashtuns tribes have Arabic names but this is not an evidence for an Arabic origin of them.Genetics are unfortunately forbidden here but Ghilzai are identical to other pashtuns and are descendants of nomadic iranic people who were sometimes a bit turkized(saka,kushan,hepthalites) and local indoeuropean people.Ghilzai were nomads in the past and today most nomadic pashtuns are Ghilzai so it seems that Ghilzai are culturally and maybe genetically the pashtuns who are most related to scythians and other pre-Altaic nomads.

Last edited by Viraspa; October 1st, 2014 at 03:17 PM.
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Old October 1st, 2014, 03:16 PM   #56
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Ghilzai are pashtuns and not Turks.Ghilzai look exact the same like other pashtuns.I not deny that some turks were assimilated by pashtuns but they were a small number and even when the modern name Ghilzai is of Turkish origin this would be not an evidence for an Turkish origin of Ghilzai.Many people adopted names from other unrelated people and the Hepthalites,who spoke east iranic languages,called themself Huns but were iranic.Some pashtuns tribes have Arabic names but this is not an evidence for an Arabic origin of them.Genetics are unfortunately forbidden here but Ghilzai are almost identical to other pashtuns and are descendants of nomadic iranic people who were sometimes a bit turkized(saka,kushan,hepthalites) and local indoeuropean people.Ghilzai were nomads in the past and today most nomadic pashtuns are Ghilzai so it seems that Ghilzai are culturally and maybe genetically the pashtuns who are most related to scythians and other pre-Altaic nomads
I didn't deny that the Ghilzais are Pashtuns. Of course they are Pashtuns as they speak an Eastern Iranian language and belong to the Pashtun nation. I think it is right to call the Khiljis as Turko-Iranian tribe
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Old October 4th, 2014, 02:05 AM   #57
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This article is just racist and has no valuable information.Pashtuns fought against the Mongols in many battles and even defeated them in Parwan.
In Parwan it was Sultan's son Jalaluddin Mnagabarni who was of Turkic stock who defeated Mongols, the army was Turk though it might have consisted of pashtuns also.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 03:49 AM   #58
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Few people in Indian subcontinent have been so lucky as Pashtuns, their presence in Pakistan just 500 years ago was marginal, now they are second largest ethnicity there , as late as 1900 they were not that dominant in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Indians and Pakistanis believe in eternity of everything so they think that Pashtuns have been there since ages when just 1000 years ago, entire area was dominated by linguistic ancestors of Hindko people.Both Baloch and Pashtuns are invaders in Pakistan and they are later than even Arabs in some cases.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 06:57 AM   #59

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Few people in Indian subcontinent have been so lucky as Pashtuns, their presence in Pakistan just 500 years ago was marginal, now they are second largest ethnicity there , as late as 1900 they were not that dominant in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Indians and Pakistanis believe in eternity of everything so they think that Pashtuns have been there since ages when just 1000 years ago, entire area was dominated by linguistic ancestors of Hindko people.Both Baloch and Pashtuns are invaders in Pakistan and they are later than even Arabs in some cases.
Correct me if I'm being ignorant here but I thought Hindkowans were Punjabi Pathans e.g. Dilip Kumar, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, Shah Rukh Khan, etc. ?
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Old October 4th, 2014, 07:35 AM   #60
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Correct me if I'm being ignorant here but I thought Hindkowans were Punjabi Pathans e.g. Dilip Kumar, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, Shah Rukh Khan, etc. ?
Hindko language is quite mutually intelligble with Lahnda that is western Punjabi, Hindkos are Indo Aryans and they are descendant of Gandhari people linguistically speaking, Punjabi Pathans are nothing but some inferiority complex Punjabi muslims claiming Pashtun origin.Hydronyms, toponyms and evidences from arachaeology as well as epigraphy makes it clear that it were Indo Aryans who were numerically dominant there in areas around Peshawar and Bannu, Mardan, Jalalabad, brutal Pashtun expansion in wake of Ghazanavid attacks reduced IA to minority in Afghanistan and same in NWFP.
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