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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:22 AM   #11
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What a lot of people seem to forget is that the ancient northern Han Chinese were also excellent horsemen, familiar with cavalry warfare and chariot warfare. And they were quite tall actually. The Terra-Cotta Warriors measured around 5 feet 8 to 6 feet. The jade suit of Han Dynasty's Duke of Zhongshan measured 188 cm.

The fact that Northern China was frequently invaded by northern tribes yet the phenotype of northern Chinese didn't really change a bit could only be explained by the hypothesis that the original Han Chinese themselves were related to those northern tribes. Sima Qian wrote in his Shiji that the Xiongnu was related to the mythical Xia Dynasty. He said that the last Xia prince fled to the northern lands after his dynasty was overthrown by the Shang.

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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:25 AM   #12

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Eh? Do you think China shouldn't be split or that there should be no countries or that all countries should be under China? Your statement is a bit confusing
If there is only one Country on the earth,who care the name of the Country,If you like it,you may call it India earth Country.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:27 AM   #13
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That is something people of China should decide it for themselves but since there are no movement from southern Chinese who want to be separated from China(except maybe Hong Kong),then I don't think it's necessary.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:38 AM   #14

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If there is only one Country on the earth,who care the name of the Country,If you like it,you may call it India earth Country.
Just checking. Like I said, it was a bit unclear to me what you were trying to say. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:40 AM   #15

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Just checking. Like I said, it was a bit unclear to me what you were trying to say. Thanks for clarifying.
So do you like it,if there is only one Country?
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:50 AM   #16
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The pan Baiyue Vietnamese nationalists would have a field day,you can't justify secession by stating that Southern China wasn't originally the homeland of Sinitic speakers.

Linguistically Southern Han Chinese speak Sinitic languages while substrates show that Yue languages have a substrate of Tai Kadai while Min languages seemed to inherit some nasal tones from Hmong Mien.

I've been told by some Fujianese and Cantonese Han that their language is a "purer" form of Chinese that resembles Old/Middle Chinese which indicates they do take pride in having Chinese ancestry.

There are even those who claim that they are "purer" than Northern Han due to multiple invasions by nomadic ethnicties.

Culturally there are regional variations however they don't draw their mythology or ancestry from Southern natives,rather ancestry is traced to men from the central plains.

While phenotypes is trickier,what we consider a "southern" look exist in Northern China as well as "northern" looks exist in Southern China,even the variation amongst different Southern Chinese groups show that they may have derived from different Han migrations and natives.

My ancestry is mainly Southern Han Chinese(Fuzhou,Shanghai,Quanzhou,Meixian Hakka) with minor Taiwanese Plains indigene blood yet my look isn't exactly common in the south either,people think I'm from the eastern coast.

Craniological and skeletal studies of the neolithic Chinese to the Han dynasty have shown that some ancient populations resemble Southern Han,while studies on the neolithic of the natives of the Yangtze basin as well as further south have much more pronounced "Australoid" traits which shows that they too were driven out or assimilated.

Your historical analogy of "Southern independence" doesn't work either,the sovereigns of these southern states were all descended from immigrants or immigrants themselves and they sought legitimacy by either using the Chinese toponyms for those areas or sucessors to fallen Chinese dynasties.

It doesn't matter if Southern Han are Sinicized Southern natives,Han immigrants or have ancestry from both groups,the heterogeneous group of "Southern Han" already view themselves as Chinese.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:51 AM   #17

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So do you like it,if there is only one Country?
Not entirely sure if Human nature would allow that. Plus I don't like the idea of a super-massive bureaucracy. Besides there's no imperative yet. concepts like Nationalism and unity always seem to arise in the face of some sort of external pressure. Until we meet aliens or create extra planetary colonies the idea of a single planetary government is unlikely since we have no common identity as earthlings, since there's no "them" to our "us" as earthlings
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:59 AM   #18
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What a lot of people seem to forget is that the ancient northern Han Chinese were also excellent horsemen, familiar with cavalry warfare and chariot warfare. And they were quite tall actually. The Terra-Cotta Warriors measured around 5 feet 8 to 6 feet. The jade suit of Han Dynasty's Duke of Zhongshan measured 188 cm.

The fact that Northern China was frequently invaded by northern tribes yet the phenotype of northern Chinese didn't really change a bit could only be explained by the hypothesis that the original Han Chinese themselves were related to those northern tribes. Sima Qian wrote in his Shiji that the Xiongnu was related to the mythical Xia Dynasty. He said that the last Xia prince fled to the northern lands after his dynasty was overthrown by the Shang.
Affinity with horse back riding and chariot warfare have nothing to do with phenotypes,some excavations in Qin lands have shown that there were skeletons resembling some Tibetan and Southern Han populations.

Sima Qian's myth is called for a myth for a reason,there is no evidence that the Xia existed or had an imperial scion that fled towards the ancestors of the Xiongnu.

The nomadic invasions were minuscule,the native "Han" population dwarfed the invaders.

Shang nobility was distinct enough that they had their own separate category in skeletal studies they were shown to most resemble modern day Fushun Han while the bulk of the population resembled Southern Han.

I don't think its at all impossible for Northern China to be a lot more diverse than it is today.

The narrative you're pushing indicates you haven't given up on your old views that Southern Han Chinese need to declare independence from Northern hegemony.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:22 AM   #19
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Hah,you don't know about China.Differences always exist,and only one country be rightful.So no matter how divisive, China will eventually be unified."wherever under the sky,it must be the king's land".
BTW,I'm a Chinese minority,but my family tree shows centuries ago we are Han Chinese,move from north to south .Doesn't it funny?
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:22 AM   #20
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It doesn't matter if Southern Han are Sinicized Southern natives,Han immigrants or have ancestry from both groups,.
Southern Han are not sinicized southern natives. They have sinitic father and either sinitic mother (pure Han) or native mother (mixed).

If they were sinicized southern natives, there won't be so many ethnic minorities in China today both in number of groups and population.

They are Han Chinese who migrated from the North after the Qin dynasty conquered the South. Migration to the South took several waves.
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