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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:28 AM   #21

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Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post
Should southern China become independent?
Noway.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post
And they were quite tall actually. The Terra-Cotta Warriors measured around 5 feet 8 to 6 feet. The jade suit of Han Dynasty's Duke of Zhongshan measured 188 cm.

.

Most countries pick tall and strong men for their army just like they pick tall girls for their airlines. Would you pick short and weak men to fight in the army knowing they will die quickly ?

The same goes to those male porn stars with average dick of 7 to 8 inch. Does this represent most men ?

The terracotta warriors don't represent the average Han Chinese.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by halamiqi View Post
ever under the sky,it must be the king's land".
BTW,I'm a Chinese minority,but my family tree shows centuries ago we are Han Chinese,move from north to south .Doesn't it funny?
Did you ask them why they change their ethnicity from Han to minority ?

Last edited by xng; October 2nd, 2014 at 08:34 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 08:34 AM   #24
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The pan Baiyue Vietnamese nationalists would .
A lot of internet trolls equate Baiyue to a single ethnic group which is wrong.
In fact, Bai Yue was an umbrella term to mean all the non-sinitic tribes to the South.

In modern times, we know they are the Tai-Kadai, Hmong Mien and Burmese-Lolo and Austroasiatic people.

From my research, Vietnamese are mixed Han Chinese-Au Lac people.
Exactly what ethnicity is Au Lac is still under debate.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 10:38 AM   #25

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Chinese populations are diverse. But why separate? What is the rationale besides the racial differences you posed?
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 10:51 AM   #26

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In your dream?
I think we should have only one Country the whole world.
You want the world to be United under one government?

FEMA camps, the intentional spread of the manufactured virus and policies directed at maintaining a greater good making any force used a "means to an end" does not sound appealing to me.

I would rather Southern China be granted independence than become a slave state.

I would rather people obtain their regional culture and govern themselves than be the subject of vast human expirementation and genocidal programs in order to stop global warming.

There are more effective ways to obtain a more green earth than butchering the civillian populations while the so called green elite refuse to go through with their own measures.
This can be illustrated through observing Al Gore's private jet and many of the Hollywood actors who refuse to go green themselves but lecture others.

Furthermore many globalist entities have come out with mass sterilization and population control measures and theories.

I would rather grant the Southern Chinese their own country as long as they do not bully "impure ethnicity"... TC you should cut out the "pure hans" stuff because it makes it sound like those who are not in that group will be mistreated.

Then again some parts of me wants a globalist world and looks at the negativity of regional powers. Everything is pretty complex.
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Chinese populations are diverse. But why separate? What is the rationale besides the racial differences you posed?
Well if they have a different philosophy of government... Even in my country the United States there are Alaskan and Texan independance movements because both states have pretty self sustaining economies.
I think it is important to bring a reasonable discussion on independence rather than dismiss the notion as that sparks the desires as well.
I know I seem anti-globalist but their are really quite a few downsides to regionalism as well.

Last edited by Aquarius; October 2nd, 2014 at 10:54 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:03 AM   #27
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The pan Baiyue Vietnamese nationalists would have a field day,you can't justify secession by stating that Southern China wasn't originally the homeland of Sinitic speakers.

Linguistically Southern Han Chinese speak Sinitic languages while substrates show that Yue languages have a substrate of Tai Kadai while Min languages seemed to inherit some nasal tones from Hmong Mien.

I've been told by some Fujianese and Cantonese Han that their language is a "purer" form of Chinese that resembles Old/Middle Chinese which indicates they do take pride in having Chinese ancestry.

There are even those who claim that they are "purer" than Northern Han due to multiple invasions by nomadic ethnicties.

Culturally there are regional variations however they don't draw their mythology or ancestry from Southern natives,rather ancestry is traced to men from the central plains.

While phenotypes is trickier,what we consider a "southern" look exist in Northern China as well as "northern" looks exist in Southern China,even the variation amongst different Southern Chinese groups show that they may have derived from different Han migrations and natives.

My ancestry is mainly Southern Han Chinese(Fuzhou,Shanghai,Quanzhou,Meixian Hakka) with minor Taiwanese Plains indigene blood yet my look isn't exactly common in the south either,people think I'm from the eastern coast.

Craniological and skeletal studies of the neolithic Chinese to the Han dynasty have shown that some ancient populations resemble Southern Han,while studies on the neolithic of the natives of the Yangtze basin as well as further south have much more pronounced "Australoid" traits which shows that they too were driven out or assimilated.

Your historical analogy of "Southern independence" doesn't work either,the sovereigns of these southern states were all descended from immigrants or immigrants themselves and they sought legitimacy by either using the Chinese toponyms for those areas or sucessors to fallen Chinese dynasties.

It doesn't matter if Southern Han are Sinicized Southern natives,Han immigrants or have ancestry from both groups,the heterogeneous group of "Southern Han" already view themselves as Chinese.
I'm not Vietnamese, I'm southern Han myself. I don't buy into those Vietnamese nationalist hypotheses, but I'm definitely against the myths created by some of the northern nationalists (like northerners are the superior Asians, pan-Altaic unity, northerners look more like Caucasians, ancient Chinese were Indonesians, etc.)

Some southern Han could indeed trace their ancestry back to the Central Plains of northern China, but I don't think this is the case for all of us. Some are obviously mixed with indigenous southern natives (My family is probably mixed with those natives, judging by the appearance of my father and my grandmother). In brief, I don't think southern Hans are purer than northern Hans. There were no pure Hans to begin with.

Language does not necessarily coincide with race. Turkish Caucasians speak a northern Asian language, but they don't look like northern Asians at all. Latinos speak Spanish, but they look different from the Spanish in Europe.

Ancient Chinese definitely had a northern appearance, this is obvious just by looking at their tomb figurines. I think those figurines were meant to represent actual people of China at that time. I don't think they spent time making those things just to represent the appearance some nomadic populations in the north.

Last edited by purakjelia; October 2nd, 2014 at 11:09 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:19 AM   #28

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purakjelia, are they mischaracterizing your call for an independant Southern China as being based solely on ethnocentrism?

From what I have read of you it seems to not be the case. You seem to be highlighting the cultural differences between the two regions as well.

China land wise is almost as big as the United States is and very diverse. It is natural that some would want independence for a region, state, or province given the diversity of interests.

Do you feel that obtaining independence would be in the economic interests of Southern China?
What system of government do you propose Southern China operate under?
I agree that the mischaracterization of two very diverse groups as being the same is intellectually dishonest.
You could lump all humans together genetically. The importance of culture is part of what distinguish the Vietnamese from Southern Chinese. Very different groups of people.
Honestly it is akin to claiming that French, Italian, and Spanish people are the same when each culture is distinguished just because of them all belonging to Romantic languages.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarius View Post
You want the world to be United under one government?

FEMA camps, the intentional spread of the manufactured virus and policies directed at maintaining a greater good making any force used a "means to an end" does not sound appealing to me.

I would rather Southern China be granted independence than become a slave state.

I would rather people obtain their regional culture and govern themselves than be the subject of vast human expirementation and genocidal programs in order to stop global warming.

There are more effective ways to obtain a more green earth than butchering the civillian populations while the so called green elite refuse to go through with their own measures.
This can be illustrated through observing Al Gore's private jet and many of the Hollywood actors who refuse to go green themselves but lecture others.

Furthermore many globalist entities have come out with mass sterilization and population control measures and theories.

I would rather grant the Southern Chinese their own country as long as they do not bully "impure ethnicity"... TC you should cut out the "pure hans" stuff because it makes it sound like those who are not in that group will be mistreated.
Southern China should be independent. We have a different culture and a different set of mentality from the northerners.

Today's CCP government is heavily biased towards the northerners. They forcefully spread Mandarin to the southern regions which don't speak Mandarin. The CCTV (Central Communist TV)'s New Year Gala is basically a northern gala, full of northern shows.

And the whole idea about the southern Chinese being the pure Han is absolute nonsense. What is a "pure Han"? If "pure Han" means Qin and Han then I don't think southern Chinese look similar to those figurines with Northeast Asian features.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:28 AM   #30
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purakjelia, are they mischaracterizing your call for an independant Southern China as being based solely on ethnocentrism?

From what I have read of you it seems to not be the case. You seem to be highlighting the cultural differences between the two regions as well.

China land wise is almost as big as the United States is and very diverse. It is natural that some would want independence for a region, state, or province given the diversity of interests.

Do you feel that obtaining independence would be in the economic interests of Southern China?
What system of government do you propose Southern China operate under?
I agree that the mischaracterization of two very diverse groups as being the same is intellectually dishonest.
You could lump all humans together genetically. The importance of culture is part of what distinguish the Vietnamese from Southern Chinese. Very different groups of people.
Honestly it is akin to claiming that French, Italian, and Spanish people are the same when each culture is distinguished just because of them all belonging to Romantic languages.
CCP just want to lump all people together, no matter whether you're a Tibetan, a Uighur, or a southern Chinese, you must obey the CCP and the rule of Beijing. They don't want to see regional culture, they just want absolute power and unity.
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