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Old October 2nd, 2014, 04:12 PM   #41
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Hong Kong people are making a courageous demand for democracy and independence. As a southern Chinese myself, I support your movement. Bring down the evil CCP behemoth, and freedom for southern China !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDJ4ALqLBN4

Police used tear gas to crack down the student democracy movement in Hong Kong, but I feel that there will be more and more southerners stand up and speak out against the evil Chinese regime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwLIjw_fjCo

Last edited by purakjelia; October 2nd, 2014 at 04:28 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 05:16 PM   #42
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If I'm not mistaken, hnrn is term only for ethnic Chinese. For all Chinese (including non-ethnic Chinese) is zhōnggu rn.
Correct. It is a term for the Sinitic people. It is called HanZhu in China.

Han Zhu is similar in meaning to the Germanic people in Europe.
There are several subethnic group such as German, Dutch, Swedish, English but they shared similar ancestry and culture in the past.

Similarly, Hanren have several subethnic such as Wu, Mandarin, Yue, Min people.
They developed slightly different language/culture due to its long history of migration and vast geography. Eg. Mandarin evolved from Manchurian influence, simplification of Chinese characters occur from change in government.

They share basically the same culture and ancestors.

I don't quite agree with TS here that they are entirely different people.

Last edited by xng; October 2nd, 2014 at 05:23 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post

I feel that Hanren is a similar term as European, African, or American. It's a general umbrella stand-for-all term.
No, Hanren is NOT a similar term as European. Zhungguoren is a similar term.

There are 56 ethnic groups in China, HanZhu is one ethnic group.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 01:46 AM   #44

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Quote:
Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post
Hong Kong people are making a courageous demand for democracy and independence. As a southern Chinese myself, I support your movement. Bring down the evil CCP behemoth, and freedom for southern China !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDJ4ALqLBN4

Police used tear gas to crack down the student democracy movement in Hong Kong, but I feel that there will be more and more southerners stand up and speak out against the evil Chinese regime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwLIjw_fjCo
KMT rule would be better for China.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 01:51 AM   #45

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Do the southern Chinese even want independence?
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 02:11 AM   #46
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Southern China is in no way an unified ethno-cultural-linguistic entity. Southern Chinese do not speak the same language - besides Mandarin; they do not practice the same culture; they do not eat the same food; they do not have the same mentality. Take a Cantonese person and contrast him with a Shanghainese, with a Sichuanese, with a Hunanese, and there are all sorts of differences. To paint China as though it's divided into two blocs - north vs. south - is fundamentally ignorant. It is also greatly rejected by 'southern Chinese' themselves - Eastern Chinese in Jianghuai, for example, would never say that they belong to the same subgroup as Cantonese, and the same goes for people in Sichuan/Chongqing and Hunan/Hubei.

To this end, I don't see southern China ever becoming independent as a bloc. Southern China is not a bloc. Whatever historical unity it has ever achieved has been under the political hegemony of northern emigre regimes. It was the Western Jin successor, the Eastern Jin, who first ruled an unified south that did not include the north, and which subsequently created the foundation for the Southern Dynasties. It was the Southern Song, the government-in-exile of the Northern Song, that next achieved the same unity. I do not know of any native southern regime that has ever unified the south on its own.

Given that there is no tradition of political independence for southern China as a bloc, it is difficult to see what sort of impetus there would be for an independent southern China. From a historical perspective, a history of southern China essentially has to boil down to the idea that southern Chinese are 'proper Chinese,' because any other narrative lays out a history of 2,000+ years of Chinese subjugation and colonization, which I don't think a nation is capable of being built on. But then, no nation exists in southern China, as I said - each region is unique in its culture and language, and were the south to become independent of the north, it's only a matter of time before its constituents become independent of themselves.

Last edited by Cerberus; October 3rd, 2014 at 02:21 AM.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 02:24 AM   #47

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Quote:
Originally Posted by purakjelia View Post
Hong Kong people are making a courageous demand for democracy and independence. As a southern Chinese myself, I support your movement. Bring down the evil CCP behemoth, and freedom for southern China !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDJ4ALqLBN4

Police used tear gas to crack down the student democracy movement in Hong Kong, but I feel that there will be more and more southerners stand up and speak out against the evil Chinese regime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwLIjw_fjCo
and the ironic thing about hongkong, may you didn't mention it, many hongkongese be against for those farce actions for hurt hongkong's economy.



and can I be against your idea about south china independent as south chinese?
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 02:25 AM   #48
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Southern China should be independent. We have a different culture and a different set of mentality from the northerners.

Today's CCP government is heavily biased towards the northerners. They forcefully spread Mandarin to the southern regions which don't speak Mandarin. The CCTV (Central Communist TV)'s New Year Gala is basically a northern gala, full of northern shows.

And the whole idea about the southern Chinese being the pure Han is absolute nonsense. What is a "pure Han"? If "pure Han" means Qin and Han then I don't think southern Chinese look similar to those figurines with Northeast Asian features.
While the capitol is in Beijing and the national language of the PRC is Mandarin, it is a mistake to believe that northern Chinese are in charge of the PRC. Eastern Chinese, especially those from Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and Southwestern Chinese, especially those from Sichuan, have a tremendously larger footprint than, strictly speaking, northern Chinese, in both government and academia. Simply look at the home regions of the PRC presidents and premiers from the time of its founding, the presidents of the various Chinese academies, etc. Eastern and Southwestern Chinese elites are certainly not complaining about their representation in government and intellectual circles. That is also a cause for why southern independence is not liable to occur - it isn't a north vs. south contest. Indeed, a lot of the regions that you consider to be southern don't even think of themselves as southern - ie there is no "we."

Last edited by Cerberus; October 3rd, 2014 at 02:34 AM.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 02:26 AM   #49

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Do the southern Chinese even want independence?
completely not.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 02:34 AM   #50

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KMT rule would be better for China.
At the birth of the PRC it would have been no different than the communists but today the KMT is a far superior form of government.
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