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Old October 18th, 2014, 10:42 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by tornada View Post
Unmai claims that the cafe attacked was because of "valid" reasons and unrelated to being Brahmins. He claims that the hotel closed down due to other "valid" reasons, at the same time accusing me of "lies" (apparently I've fabricated my own family history)

For the Brahmins, by the Brahmins: Hotel with upper caste tag raises hackles in Jaya's constituency : India, News - India Today

Sure there was a "valid" reason. Go figure

Those claiming that Brahmins are not at all oppressed
Reversal of Fortune Isolates India's Brahmins - WSJ

Remember as of 2007, one in every two Brahmin households earned less than 100$ a day, this in a "prosperous" state that boasts great reductions in poverty.

Even the Anti-Hindi agitations of Tamil Nadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia was marked by a lot of violence against Brahmins, because ofcourse it was the evil Brahmins imposing their evil Hindi culture over the innocent Dravidians, this despite many Brahmins supporting it at the time.

We had Brahmins being targeted throughout Karunanidhi's CMship in the 70s, and yet that aspect of history has been completely and totally suppressed.


So far we haven't even broached anti-brahmin violence elsewhere in the country such as that in 1948, just after Gandhi was assassinated. But ofcourse, riots against Brahmins aren't really convenient to Indian narratives are they?

I will not condemn them much as they are product of age and one can not use one's own moral standards to judge others. Remember at same time we have mass rapes in Congo or massacres by ISIL
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Old October 18th, 2014, 11:15 AM   #342

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Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
Brahmin isn't a caste. It is a varna. Both are different concepts. And it is well documented that people of one varna took the profession not assigned to them. (which is in a way sanctioned even by the scriptures). As such there isn't anything unusual that they took profession other than priesthood. However as far as castes are concerned wide variety of professions within one caste was very rare before the modern times.
I did some research and found additional support for the notion that it was unusual for Brahmins to stray from their traditional scriptural vocations.

The earliest Brahmins in S. India are believed to be the Brahmins of Andhra, the earliest of whom are said to be Vaishwamitras believed to have settled there in 1200 BC. Much, much later, these Andhra Brahmins were divided into Vaidikis (Brahmins engaged in their traditional occupations) and Niyogis (Brahmins who embraced secular employment as warriors, accountants, administrators, etc), a distinction that they hold to this day.
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Old October 18th, 2014, 07:06 PM   #343

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Originally Posted by Ajanbahu View Post
I will not condemn them much as they are product of age and one can not use one's own moral standards to judge others. Remember at same time we have mass rapes in Congo or massacres by ISIL
That's upto you, though again its a complete caricature of my arguments in another thread. But since you like being offensive and aggressive I'll let that slide.

The point is to not have moral condemnation for historical societies based on modern notions of morality. The reason we condemn ISIS and Boko Haram and Casteism today is because we have a set of morals that are from this time period and so do they. They choose to ignore them.

Either way, whether you condemn them or not is entirely upto you. You want make retarded comments based on the fact that I demonstrated that war rape and murder were considered acceptable in the 7th century but are not today and that got to you. Ok

However here I merely had to demonstrate that oppression has happened. If you think that's justified in a modern setting, especially in a country founded on the premise that it will not be oppressive and discriminatory, that's your lookout. Unmai's claim that Brahmins have never been oppressed but have only been the oppressors has been refuted. What you want to do with it is your issue.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by SSDD View Post
Since you are a Filipino, What will you feel if we say same about Muslim Moro people among Christian Filipinos by the will of Allah?

Tamil culture is at least 300 year older than Christianity.

Brahmins : One of the poorest and maligned 'Castes' in India | Hindu Human Rights Online News Magazine

Hindu Wisdom

For those posters who are rabidly anti-Brahmin.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 12:27 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by tornada View Post
Unmai claims that the cafe attacked was because of "valid" reasons and unrelated to being Brahmins. He claims that the hotel closed down due to other "valid" reasons, at the same time accusing me of "lies" (apparently I've fabricated my own family history)

For the Brahmins, by the Brahmins: Hotel with upper caste tag raises hackles in Jaya's constituency : India, News - India Today

Sure there was a "valid" reason. Go figure

Those claiming that Brahmins are not at all oppressed
Reversal of Fortune Isolates India's Brahmins - WSJ

Remember as of 2007, one in every two Brahmin households earned less than 100$ a day, this in a "prosperous" state that boasts great reductions in poverty.

Even the Anti-Hindi agitations of Tamil Nadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia was marked by a lot of violence against Brahmins, because ofcourse it was the evil Brahmins imposing their evil Hindi culture over the innocent Dravidians, this despite many Brahmins supporting it at the time.

We had Brahmins being targeted throughout Karunanidhi's CMship in the 70s, and yet that aspect of history has been completely and totally suppressed.


So far we haven't even broached anti-brahmin violence elsewhere in the country such as that in 1948, just after Gandhi was assassinated. But ofcourse, riots against Brahmins aren't really convenient to Indian narratives are they?
The average income per day of a brahmin family of Rs 100 per day is a very good income. In the same period , according to world bank statistics the per day income of a middle class indian is just between 10 to 50 . So , Your earnings are much greater than other Indians and your standard of life also better than others due to your affordibility.

Tamil people never consider either Karunanidhi or any other dravidian leader as their Protector because all are Only politicians. They use tamil and dravidians only for their own selfishness. Karuna nidhi most of the time critisize hindu sentiments but he himself follows its. All are very good actors.

Last edited by unmai53; October 19th, 2014 at 12:34 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 12:59 AM   #346
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Stop claiming Nepal is your Indian civilisation. Large parts of Nepal are in the Himalayan mountains and not Indian Subcontinent, they are genetically closer to the Tibetans than you guys. You Indo-Iranian guys are invaders to Nepal just like you guys are invaders to India.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 01:28 AM   #347

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Originally Posted by xng View Post
Stop claiming Nepal is your Indian civilisation. Large parts of Nepal are in the Himalayan mountains and not Indian Subcontinent, they are genetically closer to the Tibetans than you guys. You Indo-Iranian guys are invaders to Nepal just like you guys are invaders to India.

Click the image to open in full size.
One does not need to claim Nepal to prove that Buddha was indo aryan. He was certainly not Chinese. As to who the nepalis are. They may not be wholly indian but neither are they Tibetans either. Genetics alone is not a determinant of culture.

As to Invaders. Well simply repeating garbage wont make it true. The genetic evidence which you clearly give prime importance to is quite clear in showing that the north Indians are descended from the ANI, and largely native to the subcontinent. Declaring them invaders is like declaring the Han imvaders
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Old October 19th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #348

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Not that this is anything other than baiting, but I suppose nothing connects Nepal to historical Indic civilisation other than the Indo-european languages in which the vast majority of Nepalese now communicate and the Hindu religion with which the majority now identify. So you are correct, other than language, culture and (debatably) geography nobody from India should identify with them at all.

I think discussion of genetics is forbidden on Historum, but if you accept we emerged out of Africa then I think the majority view is that China itself was originally populated via the subcontinent. If you go back far enough, we're pretty much all invaders to someone, including those dastardly Ostracoderms of the Paleozoic. And don't get me started on those Cephalaspidomorphic supremacists, they're absolutely unbearable - especially at dinner parties.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #349

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Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
The average income per day of a brahmin family of Rs 100 per day is a very good income. In the same period , according to world bank statistics the per day income of a middle class indian is just between 10 to 50 . So , Your earnings are much greater than other Indians and your standard of life also better than others due to your affordibility.
I'm sorry but what?!?! The Middle Class income is 10-50? In what bizarre dimension do you live in. The lowest official poverty line in India is at Rs. 26/ day. While Poverty rates in Tamil Nadu dropped from 51% in the 1980s to 21% in 2001, the Tamil Brahmins saw a much less reduction in Poverty, while other communities saw much greater reductions

Quote:
Tamil people never consider either Karunanidhi or any other dravidian leader as their Protector because all are Only politicians. They use tamil and dravidians only for their own selfishness. Karuna nidhi most of the time critisize hindu sentiments but he himself follows its. All are very good actors.
Can you deny his role in violence against Brahmins? If the "Tamils" never supported him, then how did he become Chief Minister? You've demonstrated you've got an indefensible case. You're either just trolling or arguing for the sake of it, because your assertion that Brahmins have never been oppressed has totally been discredited. This ridiculous assertion that Karunanidhi doesn't "represent" Tamils is absurd to the point of insulting. Who then was doing the oppression under his regime? Imported Sri Lankans or Kannadigas?
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Old October 19th, 2014, 03:17 AM   #350

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Originally Posted by All too human View Post
Not that this is anything other than baiting, but I suppose nothing connects Nepal to historical Indic civilisation other than the Indo-european languages in which the vast majority of Nepalese now communicate and the Hindu religion with which the majority now identify. So you are correct, other than language, culture and (debatably) geography nobody from India should identify with them at all.
Other than? Language and Culture are fairly major determinants. Why shouldn't Indians identify with them? I'm not saying India should "claim" Nepal. Nepal has a long history of independence from the Indic cultural identity as well as the British, but still, what's the basis for the claim that they should no identification? They've certainly got more reason to identify with the Nepalis than the Chinese.

All xng is demonstrating is that Nepal is not homogeneous. This garbage about invaders is simply trollish baiting, since if we're going to consider events from thousands of years ago as invasions, then the Chinese have no business identifying with Tibetans in any way either

Quote:
I think discussion of genetics is forbidden on Historum, but if you accept we emerged out of Africa then I think the majority view is that China itself was originally populated via the subcontinent. If you go back far enough, we're pretty much all invaders to someone, including those dastardly Ostracoderms of the Paleozoic. And don't get me started on those Cephalaspidomorphic supremacists, they're absolutely unbearable - especially at dinner parties.
To be fair to the mods, only the scientific aspects of genetics, not general population discussions. But you are right. These arbitrary genetic supremacist and nationalist claims are often illogical, and infact the reason why genetics got banned on Historum in the first place
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