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Old October 29th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #1

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Why exactly didn't Russia demand more territory from China back when China was weak?


As you hopefully know, Imperial Russia successfully demanded and acquired some territory from China in 1858 (in light orange on the map below) and in 1860 (in dark orange on the map below):

Click the image to open in full size.

That said, why exactly didn't Imperial Russia demand more territory from China back when China was weak in the 19th and in the early 20th centuries? After all, even with the balance-of-power system in place in Europe back then, Russia might have had some additional opportunities to demand and acquire territories from China, such as during the Sino-French War of 1884-1885 and/or in the late 1890s, shortly after the Sino-Japanese War. In addition, it isn't like Imperial Russia was uninterested in large territorial expansion back then; after all, it acquired Central Asia and parts of the Caucasus throughout the 19th century.

Thoughts on this?
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Old October 29th, 2014, 12:10 AM   #2

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Also, before someone mentions Tuva and/or Mongolia here, these two territories don't count for this due to the fact that Imperial Russia never annexed them (Tuva was annexed when Stalin was in power, whereas Mongolia was never annexed to Russia).
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Old October 29th, 2014, 02:32 AM   #3

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Probably because russia fear that further annexation would attract the attention of other major power like britain?
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Old October 29th, 2014, 03:20 AM   #4
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Russia already got large expanse of land from Qing China. Just look at the land mass in the North East , north of Amur River that is called Outer Manchuria. Russians got it not by battles just by talking. What a bargain ?

Russian always gained from China at times of China weakness.

Russia is a good opportunist.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:01 AM   #5
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Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, the lands that were taken are geographically strategic, not economically motivated. Their initial desire must of been to close off the sea of Okhotsk, the sea of japan, the east china sea and the south china sea.

The Japanese defeat probably set back their plans with a partial recovery during ww2.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dara View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, the lands that were taken are geographically strategic, not economically motivated. Their initial desire must of been to close off the sea of Okhotsk, the sea of japan, the east china sea and the south china sea.

The Japanese defeat probably set back their plans with a partial recovery during ww2.
Question,why are you using an upside down map?
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Old October 29th, 2014, 07:23 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by babur the beaver View Post
Probably because russia fear that further annexation would attract the attention of other major power like britain?
Let's not forget that the "colonial adventure" of the Russian Empire didn't meet the expected success and that they simply sold Alaska. I guess that at Moscow they realized that sill in late 19th century / early 20th century, with the available technology, to administrate and manage so far and so difficult territories risked to be more a cost than an asset.

In case there were no surrounding powers and other potential competitors, to keep more and more far lands was anyway a possibility, but in that context [with the internal tenses in Russia and the European situation running towards WW I], may be Russians understood they had reached their realistic geographical limit of expansion.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 07:59 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist View Post
As you hopefully know, Imperial Russia successfully demanded and acquired some territory from China in 1858 (in light orange on the map below) and in 1860 (in dark orange on the map below):

Click the image to open in full size.

That said, why exactly didn't Imperial Russia demand more territory from China back when China was weak in the 19th and in the early 20th centuries? After all, even with the balance-of-power system in place in Europe back then, Russia might have had some additional opportunities to demand and acquire territories from China, such as during the Sino-French War of 1884-1885 and/or in the late 1890s, shortly after the Sino-Japanese War. In addition, it isn't like Imperial Russia was uninterested in large territorial expansion back then; after all, it acquired Central Asia and parts of the Caucasus throughout the 19th century.

Thoughts on this?
Including Outer mongolia,The Chinese territory was occupied by Russia is more than 300 0000SK,it's 1/4 Qing empire.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 01:54 PM   #9

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I have a question about the territories you are referring to. Did the Czar think that there was anything there to gain by annexing more of those lands? Were there any types of resources available to be had in 1858 (or anytime when China was 'weaker'), or natural barriers that would make better boarders with another large nation? Or anything beneficial, really, other than large swathes of land? Is it mostly desert or mountains around those regions? I have never been out there, so I am only asking what would be the plus side of annexing a bunch of that land.

Did Russia want to annex any highly populated areas? Maybe in Xinjiang but they wouldn't want to extend too far down that coast with all the people living there. That would probably start some serious trouble that would catch the attention of the other powers desiring markets in China.

I doubt that the British, French, Americans, or any other nation involved with international business would want Russia annexing any densely populated Chinese areas -- especially along the coast where their ships would be coming in.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:01 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhang LaoYong View Post
I have a question about the territories you are referring to. Did the Czar think that there was anything there to gain by annexing more of those lands? Were there any types of resources available to be had in 1858 (or anytime when China was 'weaker'), or natural barriers that would make better boarders with another large nation? Or anything beneficial, really, other than large swathes of land? Is it mostly desert or mountains around those regions? I have never been out there, so I am only asking what would be the plus side of annexing a bunch of that land.

Did Russia want to annex any highly populated areas? Maybe in Xinjiang but they wouldn't want to extend too far down that coast with all the people living there. That would probably start some serious trouble that would catch the attention of the other powers desiring markets in China.

I doubt that the British, French, Americans, or any other nation involved with international business would want Russia annexing any densely populated Chinese areas -- especially along the coast where their ships would be coming in.
Russia did have a desire to gain territory with ports in it,as evidenced by russo-japanese war.
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