Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 3rd, 2014, 01:49 PM   #1501
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Excerpt from Japanese study "Environmental Change and the Indus Civilization"

Our research on environmental changes centered around three issues. The first concerns the long-standing debate about the Ghaggar-Hakra River. It was identified as the ‘mighty’ Sarasvati River in the Rig-Veda text, and therefore considered critical to Indus agricultural systems. Our team, however, established that in the Indus period the Ghaggar was much as it is today, a rather small river highly affected by monsoon.

Research Institute for Humanity and Nature [RIHN], Kyoto JAPAN
Ticker is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 3rd, 2014, 04:35 PM   #1502
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Excerpt

Contrary to earlier assumptions that a large glacier-fed Himalayan river, identified by some with the mythical Sarasvati, watered the Harappan heartland on the interfluve between the Indus and Ganges basins, we show that only monsoonal-fed rivers were active there during the Holocene.

Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilization
Ticker is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 08:21 PM   #1503

mnsr's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2014
From: Asia
Posts: 1,429

Even if Ghaggar-Hakra is proved as rain-fed river, still we can't ignore its role in Indus Valley Civilization.
mnsr is offline  
Old December 4th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #1504
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnsr View Post
Even if Ghaggar-Hakra is proved as rain-fed river, still we can't ignore its role in Indus Valley Civilization.
There have been many IVC sites found in the middle of the dried bed of Ghaggar-Hakra and not on its banks. In addition to this, scientific studies have proved that Ghaggar-Hakra was a small seasonal river in the days when the IVC settlements existed in that area, and was capable of providing water for agriculture, only during the monsoon. Therefore, the sustenance of these IVC sites did not primarily depend on this seasonal river which could not even be used for transportation purposes, as river Sindh or river Ravi would also be used. This river thus played a minimal role in the civilisation, as it were.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 4th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #1505
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Scientific studies have credibly highlighted that there never was any river in Punjab as per the Rig Vedic edict, between Jamuna and Sutlej, which originated from glaciated high mountains. Despite this fact, it is repeatedly being projected through official sources from Republic of India that mythical Saraswati is the old dried bed of Ghaggar-Hakra, because it has been mentioned in the Rig Veda.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 4th, 2014, 06:23 AM   #1506
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Excerpt

While numerous academics concur with Michael Danino and S.R.N. Murthy that the dried up riverbed of the Ghaggar-Hakra was the Saraswati River of the Vedas, Dr Vahia raises a few challenges to the theory. Firstly, he proposes that the Indus Valley civilization could have been sustained by existing rivers: “the Harappans were very efficient with water management and invented circular brick-lined wells. They could have lived quite comfortably with monsoon water channels,” writes Dr Vahia. Secondly, he states that, although dating of the riverbed is broadly consistent with the demise of the Harappan culture, recent studies conducted by researches drilling into the riverbed suggests that the Gaggar-Hakra was probably never connected to the great glaciers of the Shivaliks, and that it was always a seasonal monsoon water channel. “To make the matter even more intractable,” he writes, “the evidence of Harappan civilisation is entirely archaeological, while evidence of Vedic culture is entirely literary, and synthesising the two is not easy since there are some glaring differences in what is mentioned in Vedas and what it seen on the ground.” For now, the question regarding the true identity of the Sarawati River remains unresolved, but with every new study, scientists are inching closer towards unravelling this millennia-old mystery.

Did the mythical Saraswati river of the ancient Vedas really exist? | Ancient Origins

Despite the desire of many scholars from Republic of India that they find the mythical Rig Vedic Saraswati in Punjab, it would not be possible due to the fact that recent scientific studies have precluded such a possibility. I hope that they start looking in the Ganges river valley as that is where mythical Saraswati may be found, if at all.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 4th, 2014, 07:15 AM   #1507
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

"Aryavarta was carved almost in half by the Sarasvati."

Scrolls of Aryavarta - Blog

"Later texts say that Vinasana where the Sarasvati disappears into the sands was the western boundary of Aryavarta."

On the Identity and Chronology of the Rigvedic River Sarasvati

Arthur Anthony Mcdonnell in his book "Vidic Index of Names and Subjects", 1912 states that, Baudhayana Dharma Sutra defines Aryavarta as the land between Vinasana; west of Kalaka-bana "Black Forest" or rather Kanakhala near Hardwar; South of the Himalaya; and North of Pariyatra or the Paripatra Mountains, adding that in the opinion of others it was confined to the country between Jamuna and Ganga.

These references also indicate that mythical Saraswati would in all likelihood be flowing in the Ganges river valley.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 4th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #1508
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

Names of the rivers in Rig Veda were outlined from the east to the west. These were presented in this manner, and it was indicated in the Rig Veda that Saraswati river existed between Jamuna and Sutlej. However, the exact location of Saraswati has not been identified in Rig Veda and since Saraswati can not be found, it was assumed to be the dried bed of Ghaggar-Hakra rivers, as this was the only major dried bed that was available between Jamuna and Sutlej. However, this has been scientifically proven to be not the case. It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Ghaggar-Hakra is not Saraswati.

The other explanation could be that Saraswati was not an Indus River Valley river and was an easterly flowing river. This fact also find credence in the fact that in Rig Veda, Ganga, Jamuna and Saraswati have been mentioned as a trio at certain places. One of the explanations outlined in Mahabharata also supports the theory that Saraswati flowed in easterly direction and certain other texts and old traditions confirm such a stance, which are still followed in Republic of India. And that is that Saraswati in a subterranean format, joins the Jamuna and Ganga in a holy confluence at Triveni Sangam near Allahabad, the old Prayag.

In his book, "The Ganga: Water Use in the Indian Subcontinent" Dr. Pranab Kumar Parua states on page 63, that:

"At Triveni, the Saraswati branched, southwest, and flowed into the present Hooghly at Sankrail in Hawrah and then, as Captain Sherwill and Ferguson say, flowed through Garden Reach and Tolly's Nullah (also known as Adi, or original Ganga) in South Kolkata and past Baruipur in south 24-Parganas into the Sattaramukhi and Channel Creek, or Buri Ganga or Ganga Sagar."

This is a clear indicator that Saraswati did flow to the Bay of Bengal.

Therefore, identifying Saraswati as an Indus River Valley river is a misnomer and as such there is no Saraswati civilisation that existed in the Indus Valley Civilisation.

Last edited by Ticker; December 4th, 2014 at 12:59 PM.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 5th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #1509
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

If at all River Jamuna flowed into Rivers Ghaggar-Hakra, it would have stopped flowing into the Ghaggar-Hakra and shifted course eastwards into the Ganga as early as around fifty thousand years ago. Similarly, if Rivers Beas and the Sutlej also flowed into Ghaggar-Hakra, these rivers would have stopped flowing into stopped flowing into Ghaggar-Hakra and joined the Indus before ten thousand years ago, several thousand years before the beginnings of the Harappan civilization. That is the conclusion reached in a paper in Geology by Peter Clift et al, at U-Pb zircon dating evidence for a Pleistocene Sarasvati River and capture of the Yamuna River using U-Pb (Uranium - Lead) dating of zircon crystals from ancient channels and alluvium of the Ghaggar / Hakra river.

This confirms the fact that Ghaggar-Hakra being seasonal rivers would not have had sufficient water to take it to the sea, as stated in the Rig Veda. And therefore, Ghaggar-Hakra could not be the mythical Rig Vedic river Saraswati.
Ticker is offline  
Old December 5th, 2014, 03:47 AM   #1510
Historian
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Pakistan
Posts: 1,777

It is indeed surprising that all the major Rig Vedic rivers, even during the post Vedic period, retained their names like Sindhu, Jamuna and Ganga, however, Saraswati which was also a major river, was later identified as the Ghaggar-Hakra river. The later name is not even remotely resembles the earlier supposed name. Even the famous CF Oldham also mentions this aspect.

Many scholars state that due to the fact that Sanskrit word Saraswati qualifies a river evoking a strong sense of respect among the Vedic tribes. They point out that the word Saraswati can be split into two parts i.e. saras (sara = water) + vati = filled with, which indicates the meaning of qualifying something as being full of water. It can also be used as an adjective. These scholars therefore, argued that the Rig Vedic tribes had probably adored the majestic Rig Vedic river Sindhu as Saraswati, as a river with large dimension.

Recent scientific studies have already proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the dried bed of Ghaggar-Hakra river is not the Rig Vedic Saraswati river. Therefore, many scholars give credence to the above theory also.
Ticker is offline  
Closed Thread

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
ganges, indus, river, saraswati, valley



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ethnicity of The Indus Valley Civilization 1991sudarshan Ancient History 71 December 17th, 2015 06:44 PM
Indus Valley celtman Ancient History 26 January 10th, 2015 01:08 PM
Indus Valley is Tamil Civilization omtamil Asian History 407 December 21st, 2014 09:18 AM
some indus river valley questions dreamshadow3 History Help 4 February 18th, 2011 08:08 PM
Indus Valley Syed F. Inam Ancient History 3 November 19th, 2010 01:37 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.