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Old December 8th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #1
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How big and far is Jifu territory of Qing dynasty


Quote:
the entire capital region,jifu
Click the image to open in full size.

https://books.google.com.my/books?id...2Cjifu&f=false

Does anyone have the map of this Jifu mention here? How big is it? Does it only include the outer city and inner city only or also include the territory outside the wall of outer city and inner city.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 05:43 AM   #2

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I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jifu wasn't a set area that could be outlined on a map. It was just a term used for the general vicinity around the capital. I don't think it was a territorial unit like a county or a prefecture. But yeah, it included not just the capital itself, but the surrounding countryside.

Last edited by stevapalooza; December 9th, 2014 at 05:55 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 06:56 AM   #3
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When you said capital you mean the inner and outer city right?

So the area around the capital(inner city and outer city) itself is also consider as capital?
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Old December 9th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #4

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Yeah, the whole thing. Inner city, outer city, suburbs or any markets or industrial areas that are right outside the walls, and probably a lot of countryside and villages beyond that, with some forts for defense. In Qing times I think there were lots of forts and soldiers stationed around Beijing.

Here's Zhili province on a map. So if the jifu took up much of that, then you can get an idea how big it might've been.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nasty_1820.png

Last edited by stevapalooza; December 9th, 2014 at 11:19 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #5

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jifu ≠ suburb.

1. capital, means inner city and outer city.

2. capital's suburb,(jingshi chengshu) 京师城属, means around regions outside walls of capital.

suburb administrative management power directly belong to capital.

3. jifu, 畿辅,means other cities that defense for capital and around capital, it is equal to zhili province of qing dynasty, included beijing city, tianjin city, and other parts of mordern hebei provinces, henan province,inner mongolia and so on.

jifu is far bigger than 1 or 2, and it doesn't mean capital.

the first map is capital and the suburb, small and showed some villages, the second map is jifu map,very huge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (65.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (102.5 KB, 5 views)

Last edited by fangqingming; December 9th, 2014 at 06:33 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 07:46 PM   #6
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I see,but it's kinda weird that the book in the OP make it sound like Jifu is consider the entire capital region.

Quote:
the entire capital region,Jifu
This is very confusing and contradicting.

If I am now in in China during Qing dynasty and when I mention Qing's capital,will people think of the inner and outer city only or the entire Jifu region?

Last edited by Zoopiter; December 9th, 2014 at 08:23 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 09:18 PM   #7

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Quote:
I see,but it's kinda weird that the book in the OP make it sound like Jifu is consider the entire capital region.
This is very confusing and contradicting.
may he want to express one wide term about the areas that capital is the leader in the region.

Quote:
If I am now in in China during Qing dynasty and when I mention Qing's capital,will people think of the inner and outer city only or the entire Jifu region?
people will think of the inner and outer city.

if you want to mention jifu region in qing dynasty, you will say "zhili province".

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Old December 9th, 2014, 11:11 PM   #8
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I've ask similar question before,but just want to clarify something further.

Click the image to open in full size.

On page 145 of the book,it says this is Beijing during Qing dynasty. Does that mean definition of Beijing territory is only limited to inner city and outer city?

On page 146,the author mention that 2/3 of the population(the author referring to Beijing population?) live in Inner city.

Quote:
In the eighteenth century,about two-third of the population lived in the Inner City
Click the image to open in full size.

Where does the other 1/3 live then? Outer city and suburb? Are suburb part of Beijing territory?

Last edited by Zoopiter; December 9th, 2014 at 11:23 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #9

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Yeah, you would consider the suburbs to be part of the city. The suburbs were usually right outside the city walls or very close by. If a suburb got large enough, the city wall might be expanded to include it.

In Yuan and Ming times Beijing was only the inner city. Everything outside of that was suburbs. Before that the city was even smaller, just 1/4 the size of the inner city. You can see how it grew.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevapalooza View Post
Yeah, you would consider the suburbs to be part of the city. The suburbs were usually right outside the city walls or very close by. If a suburb got large enough, the city wall might be expanded to include it.

In Yuan and Ming times Beijing was only the inner city. Everything outside of that was suburbs. Before that the city was even smaller, just 1/4 the size of the inner city. You can see how it grew.
So is there suburb in the outer city?
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