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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:31 PM   #11
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Actually, there is a strong evidence indicating that the elites of Shang came from Hongshan for archeological/cultural reasons. The area is even being dubbed as China's first kingdom.
Unlikely. The historical/archaeological and g****** record indicate that it was Sino-Tibetan migrants who spilled East and hybridized with the Hongshan culture.

There's a good possibility many of the indigenous cultural forms were adopted by the Sino-Tibetans, and the ancient "Altaic" bloodline still exists along the Eastern coast.

But it's almost undeniable that Yellow River Sino-Tibetans began proto-writing and grain agriculture in East Asia.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:35 PM   #12
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Shiji by Sima Qian. Jizi/Gija of the Shang royal family.
What exactly does he say about him?
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:38 PM   #13
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What exactly does he say about him?
That everything from Mesopotamia to Tierra del Fuego were part of the Great Altaic Korea Empire since 20,000 BC.

"Hwahn-gook" boys rarely have evidence to support their wild theories, but make up for it in effort.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:40 PM   #14
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What exactly does he say about him?
After the fall of Shang, Jizi became ruler of Joseon with consent from the new Zhou emperor.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:45 PM   #15
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After the fall of Shang, Jizi became ruler of Joseon with consent from the new Zhou emperor.
How does this make Shang elite Joseonite? I can see why you might interpret it as Shang elite moving back to Joseon, but there is no evidence of Shang culture in the region of Joseon or Joseon region culture in Shang, as far as I know. We need to have a multidisciplinary approach, and not rely on only one (or several) controversial records written 700+ years after the events they describe.

We also need to establish for certain that Joseon existed as a kingdom before c. 200 BC; I am not aware of any evidence.

Last edited by Haakbus; February 22nd, 2015 at 04:49 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:49 PM   #16
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We also need evidence that Joseon existed as a kingdom before c. 200 BC; I am not aware of any.
See Hwandan Gogi. He's the original script: O|| || --| U--||oOo|--

Ancient Hanja from 15,000 BC.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:53 PM   #17
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See Hwandan Gogi. He's the original script: O|| || --| U--||oOo|--

Ancient Hanja from 15,000 BC.
Ise: Yeongsang and I are trying to have an intelligent discussion. Would mind only posting stuff that will add to the conversation, please? Thank you.

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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:57 PM   #18
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Ise: Yeongsang and I are trying to have an intelligent discussion. Would mind only posting stuff that will add to the conversation, please? Thank you.

Why not attempt to have an intelligent conversation with a houseplant?

Does it not strike you as odd that he mentioned Cantonese, when Cantonese didn't even exist before 1-2 thousand years ago?

Translated from my Ancient Hanja: 0U -U |-| U-||0|| U
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:01 PM   #19
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Why not attempt to have an intelligent conversation with a houseplant?

Does it not strike you as odd that he mentioned Cantonese, when Cantonese didn't even exist before 1-2 thousand years ago?

Translated from my Ancient Hanja: 0U -U |-| U-||0|| U
I was also responding to your post #13.

Are you calling Yeongsang a houseplant, or am I misunderstanding you?
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:06 PM   #20
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All I'm saying is that either endeavor has equivalent value to science. But yes, #13 was mostly serious. Ask him about Mesopotamia, since he isn't enjoying my requests.

Click the image to open in full size.

In all seriousness, I'm just trying to save you some time. Ask him about how Sumiri (what English-speakers call Sumer) was part of Korea. BTW the blue in Indochina is probably the "Altaic" Ban Chiang Bronze culture.

Last edited by ise; February 22nd, 2015 at 05:09 PM.
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