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Old September 17th, 2015, 07:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by kandal View Post
Origins of two main Hindu Gods, Siva and Krshna:
From 'The wonder that was India - by A.L. Basham
Posts are not phallic symbols,but rather it would be the sacrifical posts(yupas) in which the animal is sacrificed in Velvi(Yajna).Yes,this is mentioned in Sangam texts.

Anyway,the earliest evidence for Krishna worship is found only in north at around 300-200 BCE onwards.We don't have any evidence of Krishna worship in south during that period.

Quote:
Origin of Hindu Bhakti form of worship:
From 'A cultural history of India' - edited by A.L. Basham

Yes,there can be no doubt regarding this,but by the Bhakti period,Tamil lands were beyond Aryanized....


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Origins of some key aspects of Hinduism, and culture such as Ahimsa, Yoga:
From 'India' by Stanley Wolpert
Well,Tamil kings also conducted bloody warfare.They had a gory rite in which they literally cooked their enemies and adorned the war Goddess with their intestines.

Yoga and Ahimsa are of late Vedic origins,first attested in the Upanishads.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 08:04 AM   #32
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Anyway,the earliest evidence for Krishna worship is found only in north at around 300-200 BCE onwards.We don't have any evidence of Krishna worship in south during that period..
By that logic, Earliest linga temple is from Andhra around 300BCE. Simple history just like how want
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Old September 17th, 2015, 08:44 AM   #33

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By that logic, Earliest linga temple is from Andhra around 300BCE. Simple history just like how want
Shiva linga had been found in Harappa and Kalibangan in North India. The one found in Kalibangan is identical to Shiva Lingas we have in Hindu temples.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 08:50 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by kamskans View Post
By that logic, Earliest linga temple is from Andhra around 300BCE. Simple history just like how want
Andhra was Aryanized by then and the iconography of that Linga has northern influences.Anyway there are few other images of Shiva from Ujjain and Bhita dating to the same period.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #35

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Some scholars like Witzel believe that Dravidians entered India around 4000-3500 BCE from West Asia, and imparted their language on Sindh, Gujarat, and Maharashtra before arriving in South India. This migration is used to explain the abundance of non-Aryan, Dravidian-origin place-names in these places. In fact, as far as I know, Maharashtra even today has more place-names of Dravidian than Aryan origin.
This assessment have no authenticity. The first wave of population migration in India took place 65,000 years ago from Africa through southern route(Makaran coast) and some of the the ended up in Andaman Island. Those in Andaman Islands maintained their African features while the one in mainland got evolved. The second wave of migrants originated atleast 30,000 years ago and migrated into India via Northern route and got mixed with the earlier immigrants into India, the Caucasian facial features of Indian people is infact several thousands years old wrt to hypothetical date of 1500BC coined by European historians.

Seeing India's ethnic history as Aryan vis a vis Dravidian is nothing more than a joke.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 08:53 AM   #36

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Originally Posted by truehistory View Post
Carbon dating suggests before 5000bce srilanka was attached to mainland India and around 4900bce it got separated due to some reason.
Source?

So far as I can tell, since the breakup of Gondwanaland, Sri Lanka has always been separate from the Indian subcontinent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geogra..._Lanka#Geology
Sri Lanka was certainly part of the same tectonic plate, but from what I can read, as a land mass (ie, on the surface of the planet) it has been separate.

However this isn't certain, as some geologists do think that Sri Lanka broke away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam%2...ical_evolution
But you're timeline is still way off. For instance, Rameswaram Island begins evolving 125,000 years ago (based on dating coral, which obviously can only exist in water) and the chain was clearly complete by 7000 BP, but is estimated as having begun forming 18000 BP! So it didn't begin in 5000 BCE and end in 4900, rather it was finished by then. And the formation of the island chain seems to being after a break away of Lanka, with the islands rising after the landmass splits.

Either way, the geological histories and timelines of the Island Chain as well as the Island of Lanka is largely outside the frame of Human History, with only the fag end in the period of known civilized history, and even in that none in a time period where there is recorded human civilization in Southern India.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:00 AM   #37
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Shiva linga had been found in Harappa and Kalibangan in North India. The one found in Kalibangan is identical to Shiva Lingas we have in Hindu temples.
So all the more reason to believe it is non vedic. Regardless of RV being pre or post harappan there is absolutely zero mention of phallus being associated with anything devine. The only time it is mentioned is when it is used in a negative tone.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:05 AM   #38
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Andhra was Aryanized by then and the iconography of that Linga has northern influences.Anyway there are few other images of Shiva from Ujjain and Bhita dating to the same period.
And yet we will staunchly believe that flow was only in one direction. Couldn't the Aryans have absorbed Siva into their pantheon of Gods? It is because simple archaeology alone cannot solve the history of this vast period do we look for linguistic evidence which is where there are huge doubts in vedic origin of Siva as has been pointed out before.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:12 AM   #39

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So all the more reason to believe it is non vedic. Regardless of RV being pre or post harappan there is absolutely zero mention of phallus being associated with anything devine. The only time it is mentioned is when it is used in a negative tone.
Only proof to support Harappan being non-Vedic is some imaginary Aryan migration in 1500BC(some say its 1750BC).
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:29 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by kamskans View Post
And yet we will staunchly believe that flow was only in one direction. Couldn't the Aryans have absorbed Siva into their pantheon of Gods? It is because simple archaeology alone cannot solve the history of this vast period do we look for linguistic evidence which is where there are huge doubts in vedic origin of Siva as has been pointed out before.
But we have no evidence of 'Shiva worshiping pre-Aryans' in south.South was Aryanized since its recorded history,as most of the reliable historians argue.

I stick with evidences.Most of Shiva's early images are found only in north.Heck,even Murugan or Skanda's early images are only found in north,even as far as Afghanistan.

Also there are no linguistic doubts at all! Most of Shiva's popular names are all in pure Sanskrit,including Rudra,Shiva,Mahadeva,Trayambaka,Mrityunjaya,Shanka ra,Ishana,Parameshvara etc
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