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Old September 17th, 2015, 07:54 PM   #51

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Originally Posted by Aatreya View Post
The word in Kannada for request/ask is "Bedu" which is the theorized "WeH" - to wish or desire is from Sanskrit Vedhate (with root Vidh).

The Dravidian word "muttu" for menstruation has actually nothing to do with "menstruation" directly. It is more to mean "do not touch", or anything related to touch. This is because the word for touch is also "muttu" in Kannada. The root of this word it seems again is in Sanskrit word "mrshati", that means touch(root Mrsh).

Let's now consider pollution during birth: Purutu or Purudu in Kannada. The related Sanskrit word is Prasuti.

In another thread, I had argued for Sanskrit origin for the word "Bali" meaning sacrifice. It is indeed "Bali" in Sanskrit.

Coming to word for devil - Peyi, or Pey, Peta(in Kannada), all these words have Sanskrit origin. The word is Preta (Root: Pre, that means depart). This makes a lot of sense because we are talking about departed entity.

The observance of pollution during birth, death and menstruation is strong among Brahmins, and needless to say that it has its origin in Vedic customs as documented in the Dharma Shastras.

We will try to explore other words later. My argument is not to say that Dravidians were totally without culture or anything of that sort. But I am looking at the perspective of a common origin for both North and South Indian languages and culture and their indigenous origin in India. Whether I am right in my perspective I do not know for sure, but I think it is worth a try.
Can you establish that these Sanskrit roots are present in other IE languages? Because if they are then you can certainly argue for a Sanskritic origin. If they are however seen only in Sanskrit then how can you establish that the origins is Sanskritic and not Dravidian?
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Old September 17th, 2015, 09:14 PM   #52
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The central question to the proto-dravidian origins is the question of kumari kandam, their mythical submerged homeland.
Given the fact that the earliest mentions & archaeology of Dravidian kingdoms show a strong maritime tradition and that Sundaland is both close enough and a 'sunken landmass' ( of which Borneo, Sumatra, Java and malay peninsula are the remnant fragments), its likely that the Dravidian origination and porto-dravidian roots are in the Sundaland area.
DNA evidence suggests fragmentation and dispersal of population from Sundaland coinciding with its submersion.
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repor...valley-1547987

Photos: 8000-year-old advanced civilisation in Konkan Coast? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

The above is an old news. This is a huge discovery but still not many people are talking about it or even linking it remotely to either the Sangam texts or the IVC/SSVC itself. Probably the wall was built when the sea levels were rising. If this was indeed a civilization, could this have been the pre-IVC/SSVC civilization considering the proximity of this place to IVC/SSVC region ? Also Srimad Bhagavatam refers to Manu as Dravideshwara...this description fits well if we try to link this civilization to pre-SSVC...
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Old September 17th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #53
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Aboriginal Australians have been found to have genetic links to Dravidians from a migration of about 4000 years ago (still using stone tools). See Genomes link aboriginal Australians to Indians : Nature News & Comment Which raises the intriguing question of whether the original Dravidian homeland might be somwhere in Southeast Asia with migrations going both west to India and east to Australia because of displacement by the Austromelanesians who were in turn being displaced from what is now China by the growth of the Han.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:08 PM   #54

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http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repor...valley-1547987

Photos: 8000-year-old advanced civilisation in Konkan Coast? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

The above is an old news. This is a huge discovery but still not many people are talking about it or even linking it remotely to either the Sangam texts or the IVC/SSVC itself. Probably the wall was built when the sea levels were rising. If this was indeed a civilization, could this have been the pre-IVC/SSVC civilization considering the proximity of this place to IVC/SSVC region ? Also Srimad Bhagavatam refers to Manu as Dravideshwara...this description fits well if we try to link this civilization to pre-SSVC...

It is possible. And archaeologically speaking, it'd also be possible to establish the artificiality of the wall by testing for the rock structure.

However, language is ultimately a very poorly understood topic for the entirety or most of human existence.
What language they spoke, well, without more discovery of language in those places, we will never know for sure.

Now, what we do know about the rise of sea-levels since 10,000 BC is that it didn't happen gradually. It happened in three great pulses, evident from this graph:

NASA GISS: Science Briefs: Sea Level Rise, After the Ice Melted and Today

It may not be evident, but the three great pulses are those parts of the graph that are nearly vertical, one (the smallest) 18K years ago(approximate), two (the greatest intensity) at around 12-13K years ago and the third(the most sustained, but lesser intensity) at around 8000 BC to 6000 BC period.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 01:37 AM   #55
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Guys please don't highjack this thread and please take this discussion to the thread on the other thread on Dravidian religions.
Whenever they start discussion about dravida they discuss Vedas and everything related to Aryans.

Dravida kumari kandam may or may not Sanskrit words they may be called with different names before Aryans.

Bible says first men on earth as Adam its just reference name he would have called by some other name in fact nameless

India wasn't full of dravidians before Aryans and several tribes existed. As far as my research and knowledge Bihar Bengal Orissa andhra tamilnadu kerala Karnataka Maharashtra gujatath Madhya Pradesh had different tribe ppl at least till 1500bce -1200bce

Vedas age 1900bce - 1400bce puranic age 1400bce -900bce and from 900bce religion evolved and spreading of Aryans into other part of India and southern India happened. Between 900bce-500bce Jainism bhuddism now called hinduism ajvik had quarell regarding which belief is superior.

From 400bce kingdom became pan India.

As far as south India no historic info before 600bce.

Last edited by truehistory; September 18th, 2015 at 01:43 AM.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 01:48 AM   #56

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Aboriginal Australians have been found to have genetic links to Dravidians from a migration of about 4000 years ago (still using stone tools). See Genomes link aboriginal Australians to Indians : Nature News & Comment Which raises the intriguing question of whether the original Dravidian homeland might be somwhere in Southeast Asia with migrations going both west to India and east to Australia because of displacement by the Austromelanesians who were in turn being displaced from what is now China by the growth of the Han.
We don't discuss genetics on Historum though.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 02:05 AM   #57

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Bible says first men on earth as Adam its just reference name he would have called by some other name in fact nameless
I'm sorry, but you are aware of how Evolution works right?
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Old September 18th, 2015, 05:10 AM   #58
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I'm sorry, but you are aware of how Evolution works right?
i am aware but just mentioned what bible says. name of person can say his origin but not natural things Himalayas may be called by someother name in ancient history so based on names kumari kandam and dravida we cant decide much just coz its sanskrit names.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:00 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Aatreya View Post
The word in Kannada for request/ask is "Bedu" which is the theorized "WeH" - to wish or desire is from Sanskrit Vedhate (with root Vidh).

The Dravidian word "muttu" for menstruation has actually nothing to do with "menstruation" directly. It is more to mean "do not touch", or anything related to touch. This is because the word for touch is also "muttu" in Kannada. The root of this word it seems again is in Sanskrit word "mrshati", that means touch(root Mrsh).

Let's now consider pollution during birth: Purutu or Purudu in Kannada. The related Sanskrit word is Prasuti.

In another thread, I had argued for Sanskrit origin for the word "Bali" meaning sacrifice. It is indeed "Bali" in Sanskrit.

Coming to word for devil - Peyi, or Pey, Peta(in Kannada), all these words have Sanskrit origin. The word is Preta (Root: Pre, that means depart). This makes a lot of sense because we are talking about departed entity.

The observance of pollution during birth, death and menstruation is strong among Brahmins, and needless to say that it has its origin in Vedic customs as documented in the Dharma Shastras.

We will try to explore other words later. My argument is not to say that Dravidians were totally without culture or anything of that sort. But I am looking at the perspective of a common origin for both North and South Indian languages and culture and their indigenous origin in India. Whether I am right in my perspective I do not know for sure, but I think it is worth a try.
It's worth a try. But how will you know which side the borrowing was. May be if you can come up with a satisfactory timeline for Proto-Dravidian, we can look at the borrowing. But timeline or religion or anything beyond what we gather from these proto-words as per me would mean we will be treading too much into speculation territory.

You can try and build a theory and check it it holds good
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Old September 18th, 2015, 03:25 PM   #60
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It's worth a try. But how will you know which side the borrowing was. May be if you can come up with a satisfactory timeline for Proto-Dravidian, we can look at the borrowing. But timeline or religion or anything beyond what we gather from these proto-words as per me would mean we will be treading too much into speculation territory.

You can try and build a theory and check it it holds good
Well, coming up with a timeline for Proto-Dravidian is a very tough thing. This is especially in the light of no written evidences or archaeological proofs. However, we can use the Sanskrit->Prakrit conversion guideline to see what direction the borrowing is. I'm exploring other basic words to see if there is any possibility of a common root.
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