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Old October 8th, 2015, 02:47 AM   #1

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Did Mughals hate bieng associated with Mongols?


I have heard this before.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 04:11 AM   #2
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I have heard this before.
yes they did but surprisingly this despite their own ethymology being coined as a corrupted version of the word Mongol. However, in the initial stages especially under Babur it was not the case because Babur himself liked associating with Genghis. However, later especially Akbar onwards they hated Mongols.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 05:01 AM   #3
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I was under the impression that all Mughal emperor associated themselves with the Mongols.

Their titles are very much influenced by/accredited to their Mongolian past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi...ughal_Emperors. Especially the last title in that list.

Genealogically speaking, i dont think anyone is disputing it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal-Mongol_genealogy

Is there any evidence of them saying (decree i assume) they should no longer be referred to as of Mongolian decent?

Last edited by Baldtastic; October 8th, 2015 at 05:17 AM.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 05:35 AM   #4

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Is this qoute fake or real? I stumbeld on it on the internet.

"Were the Mughals an angel race, it would be bad,
Even write in gold, the Mughal name would be bad."

It is supposedly said by Babur in the Baburnama.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 06:14 AM   #5
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I was under the impression that all Mughal emperor associated themselves with the Mongols.

Their titles are very much influenced by/accredited to their Mongolian past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi...ughal_Emperors. Especially the last title in that list.

Genealogically speaking, i dont think anyone is disputing it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal-Mongol_genealogy

Is there any evidence of them saying (decree i assume) they should no longer be referred to as of Mongolian decent?
The geneology does not show a straight link in the example you cited. It shows them related to Tughlugh Timur who is unrelated Timur (as shown in the genelogy). Now the problem with this is that Babur claimed much stronger Timurid ancestry than Genghis and considering how close he was to Timur's timeline his claim is likely stronger to Timur than Genghis. The Mughals were like probably genetically with a small Mongolic genepool (who wasnt in Central Asia) but characterstic wise more of Central Asian Turkic and culturally Persian. They adopted a few Indic characterstics but they were definitely not Indian and other parts of their heritage influenced them more than Indian.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 08:42 AM   #6
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The geneology does not show a straight link in the example you cited. It shows them related to Tughlugh Timur who is unrelated Timur (as shown in the genelogy). Now the problem with this is that Babur claimed much stronger Timurid ancestry than Genghis and considering how close he was to Timur's timeline his claim is likely stronger to Timur than Genghis.
Thatís not my understanding. I thought the Mughals started with Babur who is a direct decendant of the earlier Mongolís and was also quite proud of that.

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The Mughal Empire was founded by Babur, a Central Asian ruler who was descended from the Turco-Mongol conqueror Timur (the founder of the Timurid Empire) on his father's side and from Chagatai, the second son of the Mongol ruler Genghis Khan, on his mother's side.[32]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_emperors

So it seems he is a direct decedent from both Timur (paternal) and Genghis (maternal).

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The Mughals were like probably genetically with a small Mongolic genepool (who wasnt in Central Asia) but characterstic wise more of Central Asian Turkic and culturally Persian.
They seem to be more Turkic than Mongol, but that line isnít always clear (to me at least). I agree that they were definitely more influenced by Persian culture, more than central Asian.

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They adopted a few Indic characterstics but they were definitely not Indian and other parts of their heritage influenced them more than Indian.
I agree.

Are there any decrees or other such announcements that state the Mughals as not being Mongolian? Perhaps there are some speeches, works or literature or engravings/ steleís where a Mughal Emperor states their ancestry?
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Old October 8th, 2015, 12:10 PM   #7

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Who did associate Mughals with Mongols? The Indians?
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Old October 8th, 2015, 12:56 PM   #8

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NO !!


The answer is NO !! Mughals are Turk-o-Mongol peoples and they feel proud that their ancestors were in Genghis Khan's army.

They feel proud when they are associated with Mongols.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 03:47 PM   #9

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The answer is NO !! Mughals are Turk-o-Mongol peoples and they feel proud that their ancestors were in Genghis Khan's army.

They feel proud when they are associated with Mongols.
But after a while they became fully indianized.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #10

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Nope they were not ashamed of it. Mughal is simply persian word for Mongol. They were house of Timur and used to call themeselves Timuri. In none of their literature it is indicated that they were ashamed of their history.
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