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Old November 28th, 2015, 10:41 AM   #1
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What were the major Indian influences in Greek culture and civilization


What were the major Indian influences in Greek culture and civilization, most I believe having come post Alexander's arrival to the northwest.
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Old November 28th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #2

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Cotton was introduced from India into Greece. I have also heard of Indian influences on Greek philosophy.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 12:06 AM   #3

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Influence of Greeks on India & Vice Versa

Not much is discussed on Indian influence on Greeks. May be some exchange of metaphysical thought processes would have happened. For example Alexander's army experiencing spectacle of Indian Kalanous who burned himself on funeral pyre. In addition to cotton, Greeks began using elephants in their army.

The direct contact between India and Greeks in Greece (Europe) lasted for a short time - about 76 years (323-247 BC) when contact was reduced / cut-off once the Parthian Empire arose. But the Greeks continued near / within Indian subcontinent as Bactrian Greeks (Afghanistan) and Indo-Greeks for further 237 years, that is till the last Greek king in circa 10 BC.

Influence was a two-way process. It seems Greek influence on Indian is much more.

First in art represented in Gandhara Art which influence spread to China etc also.

Most probably Hindus & Jains picked up the idea of making temples from temples to Greek gods & kings built by Indo-Greek kings. Their style of coinage – with king’s face on the coins was picked up by Western Kshatraps and Guptas.

One of my pet theories is that depiction of nudity or sexually explicit images in Indian art was inspired by Greek influence.

They influenced Indian astronomy also. There is book in Sanskrit titled ‘Yavanajataka’.

Then Greeks civilization declined and was replaced by undivided Roman Empire (27 BC – 285 AD). They traded more with coastal India – Malabar and Coromandal coast. Romans became addicted to Indian spices and clothes, and colors. However, again the contact was limited (only thru trade) because conquest these Romans stopped in Iraq, did not extend further east. Indian merchants travelled to Socotra Island (in Indian Ocean south of Yemen) and reached upto Alexandria city (Egypt).

Roman astronomy for sure had deep influence the Indian branch of this science. There is mention of ‘Romaka Siddhanta’ in Indian astronomy as one of the sources.

Interested to know more.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 04:02 AM   #4

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What is civilisation !


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Originally Posted by Rajeev View Post
Influence of Greeks on India & Vice Versa

Not much is discussed on Indian influence on Greeks. May be some exchange of metaphysical thought processes would have happened. For example Alexander's army experiencing spectacle of Indian Kalanous who burned himself on funeral pyre. In addition to cotton, Greeks began using elephants in their army.

The direct contact between India and Greeks in Greece (Europe) lasted for a short time - about 76 years (323-247 BC) when contact was reduced / cut-off once the Parthian Empire arose. But the Greeks continued near / within Indian subcontinent as Bactrian Greeks (Afghanistan) and Indo-Greeks for further 237 years, that is till the last Greek king in circa 10 BC.

Influence was a two-way process. It seems Greek influence on Indian is much more.

First in art represented in Gandhara Art which influence spread to China etc also.

Most probably Hindus & Jains picked up the idea of making temples from temples to Greek gods & kings built by Indo-Greek kings. Their style of coinage – with king’s face on the coins was picked up by Western Kshatraps and Guptas.

One of my pet theories is that depiction of nudity or sexually explicit images in Indian art was inspired by Greek influence.

They influenced Indian astronomy also. There is book in Sanskrit titled ‘Yavanajataka’.

Then Greeks civilization declined and was replaced by undivided Roman Empire (27 BC – 285 AD). They traded more with coastal India – Malabar and Coromandal coast. Romans became addicted to Indian spices and clothes, and colors. However, again the contact was limited (only thru trade) because conquest these Romans stopped in Iraq, did not extend further east. Indian merchants travelled to Socotra Island (in Indian Ocean south of Yemen) and reached upto Alexandria city (Egypt).

Roman astronomy for sure had deep influence the Indian branch of this science. There is mention of ‘Romaka Siddhanta’ in Indian astronomy as one of the sources.

Interested to know more.
I am Very surprised to see how many Indians are Still confused and wondering how India influenced Greek Civilisation? [ no offence --I'm also in a way an Indian origin ]
Western countries are more advanced in Scientific and Technological development than India --Not in Civilisation !!
Greek Civilisation is the cradle for Western Civilisation in all aspects ---But it has been proven without any shadow of doubt ---That the Whole Greek Civilisation is taken from India without our knowledge --Even Aristotle and Plato knew it !] I will write sometime later in detail about this confusion indians!! Mean time please read the attachment below!

https://oldthoughts.files.wordpress....taireganga.jpg
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Old November 29th, 2015, 05:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by NIROSHAN View Post
I am Very surprised to see how many Indians are Still confused and wondering how India influenced Greek Civilisation? [ no offence --I'm also in a way an Indian origin ]
Western countries are more advanced in Scientific and Technological development than India --Not in Civilisation !!
Greek Civilisation is the cradle for Western Civilisation in all aspects ---But it has been proven without any shadow of doubt ---That the Whole Greek Civilisation is taken from India without our knowledge --Even Aristotle and Plato knew it !] I will write sometime later in detail about this confusion indians!! Mean time please read the attachment below!

https://oldthoughts.files.wordpress....taireganga.jpg
Niroshan plz read and reply my pm
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Old November 29th, 2015, 10:14 AM   #6

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Niroshan plz read and reply my pm
Sent---Thanks!
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Old December 1st, 2015, 02:10 AM   #7

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Verdic civilisation !


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What were the major Indian influences in Greek culture and civilisation, most I believe having come post Alexander's arrival to the northwest.

CONTRIBUTION OF VERIC CULTURE TO THE WESTERN CIVILISATION

Indians are "confused" about their history and Civilisation because they see through the Western Prism --The Western Education systems and values make many Indians look for Materialism and Modernity of the Western world.
-Recently Published research work of 20 years of comparing Greek Civilisation and Indian Civilisation by a very famous author---made it absolutely clear that the Greek Civilisation borrowed all its contents [ from around 600BC via Persian empire] from India but in return gave back the dialectic and thought form in return[is not entirely accurate--Anyway ]-and there was a constant cultural exchange ever since Alexander the Great invaded india and set up small small colonies in the west side --as he was so much impressed by the way of indian way of life with Ahimsa and Dharma ! Which was very different in Greece ,Rome and Persia!
Why did't openly acknowledge this all these years-?--Why only now all agree Greeks visited india to lean Philosophy,Religion, Astrology ,Mathematics Etc ETC
Indians should be Proud of their old heritage !

It is true India is Technologically and Scientifically not developed like modern and sophisticated western countries But generally speaking value system in west is based on --Materialism and competition along with individualism --Humans are just an "utility" of a big cooperate system--
Spirituality and collectivism is the very basis of indian culture
India is highly spiritually developed country with high Dharmic virtues of human beings--they may be poor , wear shabby cloths and living in small huts---But their human values are priceless . Poverty is not Shame!!
India was in constant internal factional wars between the ancient kingdoms and several external invasions and colonisations from foreign countries with pillage of wealth with human , cultural and religious genocides --eventually -End up with extreme Poverty-
Hence despite their knowledge had not have the opportunity to do research and development . Survival with dignity and spiritual development was the most important things in their lives of an average Indian .

Apart from that the judicial system inherited from British allow rampant corruption --making the country even poorer ----Trillions and Trillions of "Black money" stashed outside India by Elites produced by British -- while millions are Semi-starving out of poverty -
Wake Up hindu India--Oh bring Back the old Glory of your Civilisation! It is the time to make a tryst with your Destiny or Death! -


VEDIC PHILOSOPHY
The well-known early American writer RALPH WALDO EMERSON, read the Vedas daily. He wrote: "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavat-Gita".HENRY DAVID THOREAU said:..... "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita... in comparison with which... our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial."So great were Emerson and Thoreau's appreciation of Vedantic literatures that they became known as the American transcendentalists. Their writings contain many thoughts from Vedic Philosophy.
Other famous personalities who spoke of the greatness of the Vedas were: Alfred NORTH WHITEHEAD A British mathematician, logician and philosopher who stated that: "Vedanta is the most impressive metaphysics the human mind has conceived." .JULIUS ROBERT OPPENHEIMER, the principle developer of the atomic bomb, stated that "The Vedas are the greatest privilege of this century." During the explosion of the first atomic bomb, Oppenheimer quoted several Bhagavad-gita verses from the 11th chapter, such as:"Death I am, cause of destruction of the worlds..."When Oppenheimer was asked if this is the first nuclear explosion, he significantly replied: "Yes, in modern times," implying that ancient nuclear explosions may have previously occurred. LIN YUTANG, Chinese scholar and author, wrote that: "India was China's teacher in trigonometry, quadratic equations, grammar, phonetics... " and so forth. FRANCOIS VOLTAIRE stated: "... everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges."ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER, A famed German philosopher and writer, wrote that: I "...encounter [in the Vedas] deep, original, lofty thoughts... suffused with a high and holy seriousness."
The well-known early American writer Ralph Waldo Emerson, read the Vedas daily. Emerson wrote: "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavat-Gita"

METALLURGY-
The Vedic literatures contain descriptions of advanced scientific techniques, sometimes even more sophisticated than those used in our modern technological world,.Modern metallurgists have not been able to produce iron of comparable quality to the 22 foot high Iron Pillar of Delhi, which is the largest hand forged block of iron from antiquity. This pillar stands at mute testimony to the highly advanced scientific knowledge of metallurgy that was known in ancient India. Cast in approximately the 3rd century B.C., the six and a half ton pillar, over two millennia has resisted all rust and even a direct hit by the artillary of the invading army of Nadir Shah during his sacking of Delhi in 1737.

VEDIC COSMOLOGY
Vedic Cosmology is yet another ancient Vedic science which can be confirmed by modern scientific findings and this is acknowledged by well known scientists and authors, such as Carl Sagan and Count Maurice Maeterlinck, who recognized that the cosmology of the Vedas closely parallels modern scientific findings.
CARL SAGAN stated, "Vedic Cosmology is the only one in which the time scales correspond to those of modern scientific cosmology."Nobel laureate COUNT MAURIC MAETERLINK wrote of: "a Cosmogony which no European conception has ever surpassed."
French astronomer JEAN-CLAUDE BAILLY corroborated the antiquity and accuracy of the Vedic astronomical measurements as "more ancient than those of the Greeks or Egyptians." And that, "the movements of the stars calculated 4,500 years ago, does not differ by a minute from the tables of today."

The ninety foot tall astronomical instrument known as Samrat Yantra, built by the learned King Suwai Jai Singh of Jaipur, measures time to within two seconds per day.Cosmology and other scientific accomplishments of ancient India spread to other countries along with mercantile and cultural exchanges.in western Asia and Crete.

VEDIC MATHEMATICS
Voltaire, the famous French writer and philosopher) stated that "Pythagoras went to the Ganges to learn geometry." Abraham Seidenberg, author of the authoritative "History of Mathematics," credits the Sulba Sutras as inspiring all mathematics of the ancient world from Babylonia to Egypt to Greece.
As Voltaire & Seidenberg have stated, many highly significant mathematical concepts have come from the Vedic culture, such as the theorem bearing the name of the GREEK mathematician "Pythagorus "is found in the Shatapatha Brahmana as well as the Sulba Sutra, the Indian mathematical treatise, written centuries before Pythagorus was born.

VEDIC SOUND AND MANTRAS
The Vedas however are not as well known for presenting historical and scientific knowledge as they are for expounding subtle sciences, such as the power of mantras. We all recognise the power of sound itself by it's effects, which can be quite dramatic. Perhaps we all have seen a high-pitched frequency shatter an ordinary drinking glass. Such a demonstration shows that Loud Sounds can produce substantial reactions
It is commonly believed that mantras can carry hidden power which can in turn produce certain effects. The ancient Vedic literatures are full of descriptions of weapons being called by mantra. For example, many weapons were invoked by mantra during the epic Kuruksetra War, wherein the Bhagavad-gita itself was spoken.
The ancient deployment of Brahmastra weapons, equivalent to modern day nuclear weapons are described throughout the Vedic literatures. Additionally, mantras carry hidden spiritual power, which can produce significant benefits when chanted properly. Indeed, the Vedas themselves are sound vibrations in literary form and carry a profound message. Spiritual disciplines recommend meditational practices such as silent meditation, silent recitation of mantras and also the verbal repetition of specific mantras out loud.
A Clinical Test of the Benefits of Mantra Chanting was performed on three groups of sixty-two subjects, males and females of average age 25. They chanted the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra twenty-five minutes each day under strict clinical supervision.
Results showed that regular chanting of the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra reduces Stress and depression and helps reduce bad habits & addictions. These results were confirmed meically Florida State University.
Spiritual practitioners claim many benefits from Mantra Meditation such as increased realization of spiritual wisdom, inner peace and a strong communion with God and the spiritual realm. These effects may be experienced by following the designated spiritual path.

VEDIC MATHEMATICS
Voltaire, the famous French writer and philosopher) stated that "Pythagoras went to the Ganges to learn geometry." Abraham Seidenberg, author of the authoritative "History of Mathematics," credits the Sulba Sutras as inspiring all mathematics of the ancient world from Babylonia to Egypt to Greece.
As Voltaire & Seidenberg have stated, many highly significant mathematical concepts have come from the Vedic culture, such as the theorem bearing the name of the Greek mathematician Pythagorus is found in the Shatapatha Brahmana as well as the Sulba Sutra, the Indian mathematical treatise, written centuries before Pythagorus was born.

DECIMAL SYSTEM AND NEUMATICS
The Decimal system, based on powers of ten, where the remainder is carried over to the next column, first mentioned in the Taittiriya Samhita of the Black Yajurveda.The Introduction of zero as both a numerical value and a place marker.
The Concept of infinity.The Binary number system, essential for computers, was used in Vedic verse meters.A hashing technique, similar to that used by modern search algorithms, such as Googles, was used in South Indian musicology. From the name of a raga one can determine the notes of the raga from this Kathapayadi system. .

SPIRITUALITY
The Vedas however, are more renowned for their para vidya or spiritual knowledge. And even superior is the realized knowledge of the Vedic rishis or saints — that which is beyond the objective knowledge of modern Quantum Physics — knowledge of the eternal realm of sat, cit ananda, eternality, blissfulness and the ultimate truth .----Which is the most important and fundamental to the very basis of Indian Civilisation---Which is not based on Thoughts or Logic as in the ~Western civilisation which began in Greece--Rene Descartes a famous French Philosopher,Mathematician and Scientist in 17th century --The the father of Modern Western .
---with his famous quote Cogito ergo sum[a] by René Descartes usually means as "I think, therefore I am". --This proposition became a fundamental element of Western philosophy, as it purported to form a secure foundation for knowledge in the face of radical doubt of Adii Sankara's philosophy ---He later changed it to "I exist there for I am ----Even that is not accurate --According to Advita --it should be "I am that I am " !

THE HELIODORUS COLUMN

An example of these exchanges is found in the inscriptions on the Heliodorus Column, erected in 113 B.C.E. by Heliodorus, a Greek ambassador to India, and convert to Vaisnavism, as well as the 2nd century B.C.E. Coins of Agathocles, showing images of Krishna and Balaram. These artifacts stand testimony that Sanatan Dharma predates Christianity.!
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 12:46 PM   #8
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Influences from South Asia to the Mediterranean were probably superficial and limited - Greede simply had no need for them. South Asians and Mediterraneans both have several common ideas attested: Pythagorean Theorem, atomic theory (Nyaya) and philosophical contributions. However, it is most likely that each came up with their ideas independently.

Niroshan, the idea that West = materialism and East = spirituality is an outdated orientalist stereotype. You cannot explain Western materialism with the philosophy of Aristotle, Plato, and Epicurus, and this spirituality of the East does not make sense with the wealth of focus on science, war and the cold realpolitik of Chanakya and Ashoka.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 12:44 AM   #9

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Originally Posted by NIROSHAN View Post
I am Very surprised to see how many Indians are Still confused and wondering how India influenced Greek Civilisation? [ no offence --I'm also in a way an Indian origin ]
Western countries are more advanced in Scientific and Technological development than India --Not in Civilisation !!
Greek Civilisation is the cradle for Western Civilisation in all aspects ---But it has been proven without any shadow of doubt ---That the Whole Greek Civilisation is taken from India without our knowledge --Even Aristotle and Plato knew it !] I will write sometime later in detail about this confusion indians!! Mean time please read the attachment below!

https://oldthoughts.files.wordpress....taireganga.jpg

Dear Niroshan,



Being an Indian I would be very happy if it could be established that Greeks borrowed from India.


But we need clearer proof than merely saying that Voltaire (1694-1774) said that everything came from banks of Ganga. In the 220 years since death of Voltaire huge new knowledge had been gained about Indian as well as Greek history.


For example Indians knew the observed relationship between three sides of a right-angled triangle [ = Pythagorean theorem]. That was an observed relationship but Indians do not seem to have “proved” like we learn in geometry now-a-days, that such a relation can be derived logically.


Greek astronomy was much ahead of us in prediction of solar & lunar eclipses etc. This has been acknowledged by Indian astronomer of standing like Varahamitra also.


Much more serious research has to go on if such claims of the type you mention have to stand.



regards



Rajeev
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Old December 4th, 2015, 06:37 AM   #10

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[QUOTE=Rajeev;2380438]Dear Niroshan,
Being an Indian I would be very happy if it could be established that Greeks borrowed from India.


But we need clearer proof than merely saying that Voltaire (1694-1774) said that everything came from banks of Ganga. In the 220 years since death of Voltaire huge new knowledge had been gained about Indian as well as Greek history.
For example Indians knew the observed relationship between three sides of a right-angled triangle [ = Pythagorean theorem]. That was an observed relationship but Indians do not seem to have “proved” like we learn in geometry now-a-days, that such a relation can be derived logically.
Greek astronomy was much ahead of us in prediction of solar & lunar eclipses etc. This has been acknowledged by Indian astronomer of standing like Varahamitra also.
Much more serious research has to go on if such claims of the type you mention have to stand.


Dear Rajeev and Sahasimi!

Let me first tell you i am not an astronomer or mathematician ----But i have been reading and discussing with many scholars of History who have special interest in Greek and western civilisation and Indian Civilisation for the last 6-7 years-!

I am sure Many will agree with you both ,in India and abroad I Know I will be the loser because the critical masses will be with you

Greeks honestly believe "Nothing Moves" in the Western civilisation without its origins in Greece!!

Pythagoras never claimed he discovered the famous Pythagorean theorem but it was mainly Cicero and later by Plato!
William Edward Hartpole Lucky famous Irish Historian in his 'History of European Morals from Augustus to Charlemagne ( 1869) quotes an old tradition in Greece that Pythagoras had learnt in Indian from gymnosophists.!
Hindu thought had also exerted a great influence on ancient Greek thought as M.E. Pococke shows in his book 'India in Greece'.It is believed that besides Pythagoras, Appolonius, Democritus, Anaxarchus and Pyrrho also visited India.
According to Lucianus, the Golden Philosophy first descended upon "the Indians, the mightiest nation upon the earth".

As far as I know , he was under a teacher Thales of Miletus and he travelled including Babylonia and learned under many teachers . I guess at the age of 22 years he was trying to join a mystic school in Egypt --And he was taken as a Prisoner to Persia invaded Egypt--I am sure at that time only Jews were Freed from captivity and from Persia he visited India around 520 BC I guess and Learned veda under Brahmins---He wanted to meet Buddha Personally but he could not make it .for some reasons !

It is wrong to say that he learned Pythagorus theorem or Cosmology or astrology from India- During his visit [ No one Knows What he Learned-] Surely they have had some idea if they come all the way and learned it from other teachers as well

But the Fact is Pythagorus theorem was discovered in India Long before 800BC , the credit go to them .
But Greeks Kept his Visit so Secret and only talk about Alexander the Great Invasion ---That also with wrong version [ Russians historians have a better story ] But Plato was so much influenced by him through him Western world!

Aristotle according to one of his students met a Buddhist missionary Monk and and had long discussions . He use to do Mediations at home! and Plato also came into contact with a Learned Indian in ? Persia ---But their history Does't utter a word about these events !
Whole Western thoughts and ides are originated Greek-I was told that There was a wonderful hollywood movie film revolving around how Greeks feel how that the western civilisation originated from Greece ! ---Only Now slowly slowly , people accept ,Greek civilisation was not the continuous evolution of Sumerian or Mesopotamian civilisation but it was the Indian Civilisation that had profound Impact on the Advancement of Greek and hence the Western Civilisation.!

It was Like this ....We all know from veda that there is nothing called "Matter" Exists in reality all are "Energy" [leave wave-particle for the time being ]--The word Matter is also from Greek --Even Newton Didn't Know it But Einstein had an Insight And Worked Out the equation E=MC2 -- That Led to So many things including Atomic Bomb !! So was his Theory of Relativity! I am not saying Einstein Read it from veda or got the idea from ---Oh ..No..He formulated his "insight" and spend time on research and development on something our ancestors knew about Million Years ago but we never make use of it because we saw things as English Saw !
Because of western Education System and Our Fascination for Western culture --We Neglected our ancestors thoughts and ides in our Religion, Literature Etc But westerners not only appreciate but their heritage and make use of it for their advancement Eg Yoga
Because of our mind-set moulded over several centuries first we have to spend time in un- learning ---Otherwise We will all the time seeing through "Western Made Sun Glasses"!

Writing In a Hurry I am Busy today--I will Write Tomorrow about Materialism Vs Spiritualism--Tomorrow That is the most basic concept one have to grasp---I am not against Materialism or scientific or technological advancement --

That was why when Greeks first Found Indians very Irrational and not Logical -Could not understand Indian Civilisation!

..Think What is the Logic of your Life Or Let me know the Logic of Love is tomorrow <3
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