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Old February 1st, 2016, 07:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by azat View Post
Read my entire post it started with Khalifate attempts soon after prophet death and when read lines about arabian authors observation about Indians mostly as Jats via segrid westphal then Ibn Hukkal ...here Iam not taking pre prophet period whereBibi Aiyesha was treated by Indian Jat Doctor....I was wondering whether they fell in fifth century and filled all northwestern areas to be reported by every foreigners with in a century.
I don't know what Jats have to do with Ayesha, but so far you have failed to provide a single evidence to prove that there were Jats before 5th century CE.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 07:15 PM   #52
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Why Jat and med not a Rajput Gujjar avan dhobi nai brahman etc??
Because zutts were found in sindh and arabs had pre Islamic relations with Sindh. They most have heard of people called zutt in Sindh and though that doctor was also zutt. Rajput didn't exist back then, that is just a title anyway. Gujjars have northen origins, they are not found in Sindh.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 07:17 PM   #53
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Al Brunie did mention Krishna and Vasudeva as Jats read again and then write.
Here's what Al Beruni wrote regarding this ::
Quote:
A messenger of this kind is, according to the belief of the Hindus, Vˆasudeva, who was sent the last time in human shape, being called Vˆasudeva. It was a time when the giants were numerous on earth and the earth was full of their oppression; it tottered, being hardly able to bear the whole number of them, and it trembled from the vehemence of their treading. Then there was born a child in the city of Mathurˆa to Vˆasudeva by the sister of Kam˙ sa, at that time ruler of the town. They were a Jatt family, cattle-owners, low īSuˆdra people. Kam˙ sa had learned, by a voice which he heard at the wedding of his sister, that he would perish at the hands of her child; therefore he appointed people who were to bring him every child of hers as soon as she gave birth to it, and he killed all her children, both male and female.


I would say that this account is very reliable and very accurate historically (sarcasm)

Last edited by Bhrigu; February 1st, 2016 at 07:21 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 07:32 PM   #54
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Foreigners don't bother with fine details, Haryana is known for jats yet they make only 20% of population.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 07:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by janjumanju123 View Post
Foreigners don't bother with fine details, Haryana is known for jats yet they make only 20% of population.
Actually Jats are very large in numbers compared to other communities.
The percentage of different communities in Haryanvi population as per Haryana Backward classes, Commision Report ,1990:

Jat- 22%

Ahirs- 15%

Sikh-4%

Gujjar-2.8%

Rajput-5%

Saini-2.5%

Ror-1%

Aggarwal {Bania}-5-%

Brahman 8%

Khatri/Arora-8%

Chamar / SC-20%

Bishnoi-0.7%

Kamboj-2%

Others- 6%

Even with their small numbers, Rajputs, Gujjars, Sikhs and Brahmins are very influential communities in the state politics.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 08:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Bhrigu View Post
Here's what Al Beruni wrote regarding this ::


I would say that this account is very reliable and very accurate historically (sarcasm)
If you read his book there is no bias in his narrations...This was told to him by learned people of that times and reported as such so there is no reason for doubting his narrations ,same way Ayesha a wife of prophet in sixth century is reported to be treated by Indian Jat doctor this is reported by muslim scholars that meant by that time they were known Indian Jats and when Kasim invaded they were so numerous that they occupied vast areas ..same is reported by Ibn Hukkal and other arabian travellers in eightor ninth century that they controlled all route from mansura to kirman and there were northern kingdom of Kaikan Jats in Afghanistan.

All I want to point out that Jats were always here ,they didn't fall from sky to be numerous overnight ......and if arabian knew Indian as Jats then why they mentioned about meds and brahmans it meant they knew different sections again if all Indians were treated as Jats why they are represented as a seperate group who controlled tracts of mansura makran kirman and kaikan areas...It shows Jats were in this area long back and reported as such by various authors .No need to twist what they wrote ...

Just to prove our wrong understanding of past history.

Last edited by azat; February 1st, 2016 at 08:09 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 08:08 PM   #57
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Jats are single largest community in entire northwestern Indo pak areas ...Haryana Punjab Pakistan Rajsthan and some parts of northern Gujarat.

They came in waves prevedic with Brahmans vedic with athravans then scythians that are largly meged in Jatts of Pakistan and norther haryana punjab areas.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 09:21 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhrigu View Post
Actually Jats are very large in numbers compared to other communities.
The percentage of different communities in Haryanvi population as per Haryana Backward classes, Commision Report ,1990:

Jat- 22%

Ahirs- 15%

Sikh-4%

Gujjar-2.8%

Rajput-5%

Saini-2.5%

Ror-1%

Aggarwal {Bania}-5-%

Brahman 8%

Khatri/Arora-8%

Chamar / SC-20%

Bishnoi-0.7%

Kamboj-2%

Others- 6%

Even with their small numbers, Rajputs, Gujjars, Sikhs and Brahmins are very influential communities in the state politics.
Very interesting information, do you have similar report about Indian punjab?
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Old February 1st, 2016, 10:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by janjumanju123 View Post
Very interesting information, do you have similar report about Indian punjab?
I found this after a google search: (c) RELIGIONS AND CASTES

It is much more detailed.
But it is a census from 1961.

I think they have stopped doing caste-based censuses now.

Last edited by Bhrigu; February 1st, 2016 at 10:11 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 11:32 PM   #60
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That is a pure denial of a valuable non partial historical reference.How can you put such observation.

Regarding Jats you need to read a lot earlier Indian History earliest resistance to invading arabian armies was put by Jats only.Before Kasim their second or third attempt to capture Hindustan was destroyed by Jats. Jats of gajani defeated same campaign earlier. Arabians found them so numerous that Indians were mostly treated Jats as per segrid Westphal german couple.ibn Hukkal notice them controlling all tracts from Sindh to Makran ,Sultan Ghajanvi fights with them Babbar call India a country of Jats and Gujjars Temur fought with them in Samarkand and Tohana ...Do you think they all fall in fifth century from sky and filled all Indo Pak areas to be noticed so by Arabian historians ...
yes but also do remember the first allies among locals in Sindh to fight with Muhammed Bin Qasim against Raja Dahir were also Jats. Infact it is Jat support and intelligence that allowed Arabs to enter Sindh.
I no doubt think Jats are hearty fighters and taught a lesson under the likes of Charuman to Mughals when they ransacked and raided Akbar's tomb. To harass Mughals despite being around their core areas requires skill. Jats were the first to give back foreign Muslim rulers in kind by pillaging, attacking and persecuting their peoples. There martial prowess is unbelievable good. They could however never project power outside their core areas in Western UP, North east Rajasthan and Haryana.
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