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Old January 20th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Vietnamese View Post
Japan
Proper Name: Nihon
Known as Phu Tang (the name of the a tree in Japan) or Nhat Ban (dont know why) by Vietnamese.
Nhat Ban is the chu nom for 日本.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Vietnamese View Post
India
Proper Name: Indiya
Known as An Do by Vietnamese. Not sure why.
An Do is the chu nom for 印度.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #22
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Yappon might be due to being a loanword from a specific Chinese language variety at the time of the loan.

E.g: the Cantonese pronunciation for Japan Yapbun while the Hokkien for Japan was similar to Japan and the Wu pronunciation was Zeppen giving us the antiquated Zipang name for Japan.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 04:25 PM   #23
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I know in many cases what was originally i in Mongolian became ya in the first syllable. So we would have things more like Khitad (from Khitan) and Ipon.

Last edited by Haakbus; January 20th, 2016 at 04:32 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 06:23 PM   #24

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韓, in addition to signifying post-Joseon Korea, was actually one of the states in the Warring States Era, was it not? From that perspective, it would not be strictly wrong to say that the character referred to a part of China in the past.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 10:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
韓, in addition to signifying post-Joseon Korea, was actually one of the states in the Warring States Era, was it not? From that perspective, it would not be strictly wrong to say that the character referred to a part of China in the past.
Indeed this is very unusual and comes as a bit of a surprise.

1. The Jin state of Korea broke into the three Samhan kingdoms.
2. The Jin state of China broke into three kingdoms, namely the Zhao, Wei, and Han.
3. Both the Samhan and the Han state of China use the same character.

Is it possible that there was a time when the writing of China were too loosely codified to recognize that the Jin state of Korea and China are one in the same. And that the Han kingdom was somehow favored as the naming successor of the three broken territories of the Jin state, over Zhao and Wei. This is after all a time before unified Qin made Chinese characters across China uniform.

In this case we have the three Korean kingdoms (Baekje, Silla, Goguryeo) being founded and stretched all over northern China and Mongolia. I'm guessing this is why we find so much of the three Korean kingdoms in some weird places. Ie. Baekje in the Central Plains of China. Silla as possibly Serica reaching into the Steppes to Rome.

As for how the Three Kingdoms of Korea ended up in Korea finally, I'm guessing Baekje and Silla had territory already in Korea, while all three were driven back by the Xianbei into the Korean peninsula.

Last edited by Yeongsang; January 20th, 2016 at 10:45 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 11:29 PM   #26
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晉 =/= 辰.

There was a separate Han(韓) marquis/chief enfeoffed by the King Xuan of Zhou in modern day Hebei. The polity was adjacent to Yan(燕) and included the Zhui and the Mo as their subjects.

Chinese scholars tend to view the polity as being related to the Zhou sovereigns,some which claim that it was present in modern day Shanxi due to the presence of another Yan polity.

Korean scholars identify the Zhui(追) and Mo(貊) tribes as the Ye(濊) and the Maek(貊),they argue that this Han polity is equivalent to Old/Gija/Wiman Joseon and the ruler was of native stock.

Regardless,this Han polity was separate from Han state and the Samhan.

Last edited by Wansui; January 20th, 2016 at 11:32 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 12:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wansui View Post
晉 =/= 辰.
I know that. I think you're missing the point. If the name of Jin state, Korean or Chinese otherwise, predated the codification of Chinese writing, then its possible that the name Jin passed into oral memory on the Korean side and re-emerged into a different character with the same phonetics.

Quote:
There was a separate Han(韓) marquis/chief enfeoffed by the King Xuan of Zhou in modern day Hebei. The polity was adjacent to Yan(燕) and included the Zhui and the Mo as their subjects.
Perhaps some favored the name Han for the fragmented Jin state of China. This could have led to the confusion. Zhao for example, is adjacent to Yan and it may have simply been referred to as Han depending on which ancient was being asked.

Quote:
Chinese scholars tend to view the polity as being related to the Zhou sovereigns,some which claim that it was present in modern day Shanxi due to the presence of another Yan polity.

Korean scholars identify the Zhui(追) and Mo(貊) tribes as the Ye(濊) and the Maek(貊),they argue that this Han polity is equivalent to Old/Gija/Wiman Joseon and the ruler was of native stock.
The Zhou royal clan had presence in the Jin state that eventually fragmented into Zhao, Wei, and Han. If Zhao or Wei were indeed also referred to as Han, then it might explain why there is a Samhan in Korean historical memory, assuming that Korean historical memory of Jin and Samhan are places in northern China.

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Regardless,this Han polity was separate from Han state and the Samhan.
The Han polity adjacent to Yan may be separate from the Han state. But the Samhan, which means 'three Hans', may be referencing Zhao, Wei, and Han, and the other Han polity all at the same time. Then there is the city of Handan which was the capital of Zhao, to which we can apply the same writing codification and phonetics argument, to find more overlaps.

Last edited by Yeongsang; January 21st, 2016 at 01:11 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 12:30 AM   #28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeongsang View Post
Indeed this is very unusual and comes as a bit of a surprise.

1. The Jin state of Korea broke into the three Samhan kingdoms.
2. The Jin state of China broke into three kingdoms, namely the Zhao, Wei, and Han.
3. Both the Samhan and the Han state of China use the same character.

Is it possible that there was a time when the writing of China were too loosely codified to recognize that the Jin state of Korea and China are one in the same. And that the Han kingdom was somehow favored as the naming successor of the three broken territories of the Jin state, over Zhao and Wei. This is after all a time before unified Qin made Chinese characters across China uniform.

In this case we have the three Korean kingdoms (Baekje, Silla, Goguryeo) being founded and stretched all over northern China and Mongolia. I'm guessing this is why we find so much of the three Korean kingdoms in some weird places. Ie. Baekje in the Central Plains of China. Silla as possibly Serica reaching into the Steppes to Rome.

As for how the Three Kingdoms of Korea ended up in Korea finally, I'm guessing Baekje and Silla had territory already in Korea, while all three were driven back by the Xianbei into the Korean peninsula.
This mean real Korean are Chinese???? I am confusing.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 01:36 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatelessInSapporo View Post
This mean real Korean are Chinese???? I am confusing.
Koreans seem to have some legends and histories that are unrelated to the Chinese, but also some that could possibly overlap. But if you want to look at the genetic overlaps between Chinese and Koreans, you could always try a different forum, as genetics discussions are prohibited on this forum.

Last edited by Yeongsang; January 21st, 2016 at 01:44 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
It's pronounced "Pratet Thai", which literally means "Land/Country of the Thais", or in English, "Thailand". "Guo" means "country" in Chinese, so "Tai Guo" means "Thailand".
The Thai 'pratet' sounds very close to the Hindi word 'pradesh' which means state or region. It must be loanword from Sanskrit.
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