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Old January 21st, 2016, 02:45 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
The P sound in the name is easily explainable. Japan is also called "Nippon" in Japanese. The Japanese airline ANA is short for All Nippon Airways (Zen Nippon Kuuyu"), not Nihon.
How would you explain the name Magbarnis. There must have been important historical interaction between the Japanese and Filipinos for there to be such a unique name.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:03 AM   #32
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local name of India is bharat only modernized people of mainly tier 2 cities use India (<5%) most of Indians use Bharat
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:42 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Moloc View Post
Yappon might be due to being a loanword from a specific Chinese language variety at the time of the loan.

E.g: the Cantonese pronunciation for Japan Yapbun while the Hokkien for Japan was similar to Japan and the Wu pronunciation was Zeppen giving us the antiquated Zipang name for Japan.
Japan is also known as "Jit5-pn" in Hokkien (Southern Min), which as you mentioned, sounds close to English "Japan". According to reconstruction, "日本" is pronounced "Nitpˤənʔ" in Old Chinese (上古漢語) and "Ńźjetpuənᴮ" in Middle Chinese (中古漢語).
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Old January 21st, 2016, 04:15 AM   #34
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In Old Chinese (上古漢語):
China (中國): Ṭuŋkuək
Japan (日本): Nitpˤənʔ
Cambodia (柬埔寨): *Kˤranʔ*pʰa*tsˤrəj
Korea (朝鮮/韓國): *Taw*serʔ / *Gˤarkuək
India (印度): *Qiŋ-sdɑk

In Southern Min POJ (閩南語白話字):
China (中國): Tiong-kok
Japan (日本): Jit5-bn
Cambodia (柬埔寨): Kn-poo-tsē
Korea (朝鮮/韓國): Tiu-tshinn / Hn-kok
India (印度): n-tōo

One thing you realise is that in the Southern Min dialect (閩南語), much like Old Chinese (上古漢語), there are no retroflex consonants such as "zh", "ch", "sh" which only appears in dialects such as Cantonese (粵語) and Mandarin (普通話), which was passed down from Middle Chinese (中古漢語). Hence "朝" (cho) in Mandarin is reflected as "Tiu" in Southern Min and "*Taw" in Old Chinese, much like how "中" (zhong) in Mandarin is reflected as "Tiong" in Southern Min and "Ṭuŋ" in Old Chinese.

As you can see, "柬埔寨" (Jiǎnpǔzhai) sounds vaguely similar to "Kampuchea" but the Old Chinese/Southern Min pronunciation "*Kˤranʔ*pʰa*tsˤrəj" / "Kn-poo-tsē" bears some similarity.

Some of these countries have been ascribed using certain Chinese characters by sound very early in history, as the Chinese language evolves over time, the pronunciation for these Chinese characters become very different.

Last edited by Takoyaki; January 21st, 2016 at 04:17 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 04:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Yeongsang View Post
I know that. I think you're missing the point. If the name of Jin state, Korean or Chinese otherwise, predated the codification of Chinese writing, then its possible that the name Jin passed into oral memory on the Korean side and re-emerged into a different character with the same phonetics.
This makes as much a sense as your Jusen/Joseon or Buyeo/Baiyue theories.

辰 was pronounced d(h)ǝr or d(h)ǝn,晉 was pronounced cǝns or cinh.

The rest of your post is empty speculation. The Han in Samhan is a transliteration of a native term,while the 邯 in Handan was pronounced tār or tān.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 04:30 AM   #36
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Although it wasn't mentioned above, Vietnam is also an exception: 베트남 (Betunam) is generally used instead of the Chinese 越南 (월남 - Woel Nam, which actually does mean Vietnam in Korean, but is instead evidently more commonly used to mean defecting to South Korea from North Korea).
I thought 逃北者 (탈북자) was used to refer to refugees who have defected from North Korea?

Anyway, I've realised that most place names in China, Vietnam or Japan which are written in Chinese characters are no longer pronounced the way they would be pronounced in Sino-Korean vocabulary, but rather, these place names are spelt out in their native language using the Korean alphabet instead.

For instance, Beijing (北京) is referred to as "Beijing" (베이징) instead of "Bukgyeong" (북경); and Shanghai (上海) is referred to as "Syanghai" (샹하이) instead of "Sanghae" (상해). Hanoi (河內) is referred to as "Hanoi" (하노이) instead of "Hanae" (하내) and Tokyo (東京) is referred to as "Dokyo" (도쿄) instead of "Donggyeong" (동경).
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Old January 21st, 2016, 01:07 PM   #37

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Originally Posted by Senyokbalgul View Post
Can unique names of neighbouring countries give some insight into the historical relations between the said countries? Countries seem to have unique names for their neighbours due to special historical interaction. What can these special names reveal about their interactive history? Many of these names, I do not know the reason and history behind the unique names. Maybe some of you could give me some insight.


China
Proper Name: Zhong Guo
Known as Khyatad by Mongolians and as Kwaihotnya by the Burmese. There must be an unknown special historical relation between Mongolia, Burma and China for there to be a unique name unrelated to the proper name.
Khyatad is from Khitan. Khitad is the plural form of Khitan. And many people just pronounce it 'khitad' albeit its written with ya. Its possibly because the Mongols were lazy and just considered whole China Khitan because they were people living south. Much like how China used 'catch all' terms for barbarian tribes.

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Originally Posted by Senyokbalgul View Post
Korea
Proper Name: Hanguk
Known as Solongos by the Mongolians. The meaning of Solongos is 'rainbow land' in the Mongolian language, and seems to be a very unusual name for a country that doesn't really rain much (usually only during summer) and rarely has any rainbows.
The name could come from the Solon peoples who lived in the direction of Korea, but the Koreans wore colorful attire compared to the Solon peoples- hence rainbow.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 01:51 PM   #38

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

The name could come from the Solon peoples who lived in the direction of Korea, but the Koreans wore colorful attire compared to the Solon peoples- hence rainbow.

Good point. This creates a lot of confusion with people. There are two "Solongs." The Solongas were originally a Shiwei tribe I believe, just like the Mongols. They lived in northern Manchuria/Siberia (and still do). But the Mongols did use "Solongs" for Koreans too, so it's hard to tell who they're talking about sometimes. "Solongqa" is a Mongolian word for a type of Siberian weasel, whose fur the Solonga tribe probably wore or sold. The Korean word for the same animal is sak. I think both words come from the same root.

Last edited by stevapalooza; January 21st, 2016 at 02:07 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:09 PM   #39

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Originally Posted by Takoyaki View Post
I thought 逃北者 (탈북자) was used to refer to refugees who have defected from North Korea?
(脫北) 탈북하다: to escape from North Korea
월남하다: to defect to South Korea
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Old January 21st, 2016, 04:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Yeongsang View Post
Indeed this is very unusual and comes as a bit of a surprise.

1. The Jin state of Korea broke into the three Samhan kingdoms.
2. The Jin state of China broke into three kingdoms, namely the Zhao, Wei, and Han.
3. Both the Samhan and the Han state of China use the same character.
Chinese Jin (晋) and ancient Korean Jin (辰) are not the same.

Samhan (三韓) and Han (漢) are also not the same.

Moreover, Jin and Han probably derived from native Korean language, which had nothing to do with the Chinese characters that transliterate them, despite they had similar pronunciations.

Again, stop making random claims.
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