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Old March 28th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #21

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Hun-gary is probably a similar situation to Bulgar-ia.
Uralic people must have been a mixture of Central Asian populations that later mixed intermarried Europeans through migrations.
They arrived as horse riders later into Europe and gave their names to new state formations that came into place.

Bulgaria is a mix of Paleo-Balkan,Slavic populations mostly under the lead of the warlike class of Turkic Bulgars.
Bulgars are for sure Turkic hence the Asparukh name of their king.

A similar situation must have occured with Hungary and Huns that named that country by themselves.
I haven't studied Hungarians to be honest and I don't know what their main stock is composed of.
Central European populations mostly Pannonians.

Were they Celtic,Slavic,Germanic or Latin?
Can anyone answer that question?
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Old March 28th, 2016, 01:52 AM   #22

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Etymology of the name 'Hungary' seems to have some origins in Greek Οΰγγροι /Ungroi, and the name in Latin Ungri, Hungri, Ungari, and Hungari is only a variation of this name in Greek.


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The ethnonym "Ungri" is the Latinized form of Byzantine Greek Oungroi (Οὔγγροι). According to an explanation, the Greek name was borrowed from Old Bulgarian ągrinŭ which was in turn borrowed from Oghur-Turkic On-Ogur (meaning "ten [tribes of the] Ogurs"), the collective name for the tribes who later joined the Bulgar tribal confederacy that ruled the eastern parts of Hungary after the Avars. The Hungarians likely belonged to the Onogur tribal alliance and it is quite possible they became its ethnic majority.[4][10]
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The addition of an unetymological h- in Medieval Latin is most likely due to early pseudo-historical associations with the Huns who had settled Hungary prior to the Avars, as in Theophylactus Simocatta where he states, "Hunnougour, descendants of the Hun hords".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Hungary
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Old March 28th, 2016, 01:55 AM   #23

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Originally Posted by Valens View Post
Etymology of the name 'Hungary' seems to have some origins in Greek Οΰγγροι /Ungroi, and the name in Latin Ungri, Hungri, Ungari, and Hungari is only a variation of this name in Greek.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Hungary
Greek speaking Byzantines of the time called them as Turks.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 02:00 AM   #24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
Greek speaking Byzantines of the time called them as Turks.
It is quite possible that the Byzantines did not distinguish the early Magyar tribes from all other peoples, especially those of Turkic origin, that were known to them before the Hungarian conquest.

Even from late Byzantine sources, we have the (Ottoman, but also other Turkish tribes of Anatolia) Turks called 'Persians' which seems to have been a common name to denote Byzantine enemies in the east.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 02:09 AM   #25

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Originally Posted by Valens View Post
It is quite possible that the Byzantines did not distinguish the early Magyar tribes from all other peoples, especially those of Turkic origin, that were known to them before the Hungarian conquest.

Even from late Byzantine sources, we have the (Ottoman, but also other Turkish tribes of Anatolia) Turks called 'Persians' which seems to have been a common name to denote Byzantine enemies in the east.
I agree, it probably goes the way you describe things.

All that I wanted to say is that people like Bulgars,Kumans,Huns etc. must have sth in common that got them distinguished from their enemies.
Their horse riding abilities and fighting style betrays their common Central Asian origin.

I recently got dismissed from the Greek army and I was amazed of the pluralism of the population of a country.
A guy that served to the Religous Department of the General Staff was tall and had Mongoloid facial features.
He was coming from a place named Domokos in Greece and after carefully searching origin of the word I ended up to a Hungarian word.

There's a part of Hungarians that after carefully observing their facial features make you question their stock.
Same thing applies to Bulgarians I spot over Greece.
There's a part of them with direct Turkic proto-Bulgar origin.

I support the view that all over Europe we are descendants of the Middle Ages.
Since Imperial formations existed back then we cannot speak for pure populations.
We came out of a melting pot...obviously.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 02:17 AM   #26

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Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
I agree, it probably goes the way you describe things.

All that I wanted to say is that people like Bulgars,Kumans,Huns etc. must have sth in common that got them distinguished from their enemies.
Their horse riding abilities and fighting style betrays their common Central Asian origin.
Probably yes, though the Magyars seems to have occupied the area in Southern Urals before moving to the area around Don river. We probably cannot know that, but I don't think these Magyar tribes were nomads, even if they had a lot of similarities with neighboring nomadic peoples.
There are still various Ugro-Finnic peoples living across Russia today, so I guess that the early Magyar tribes had the most in common with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
I recently got dismissed from the Greek army and I was amazed of the pluralism of the population of a country.
A guy that served to the Religous Department of the General Staff was tall and had Mongoloid facial features.
He was coming from a place named Domokos in Greece and after carefully searching origin of the word I ended up to a Hungarian word.

There's a part of Hungarians that after carefully observing their facial features make you question their stock.
Same thing applies to Bulgarians I spot over Greece.
There's a part of them with direct Turkic proto-Bulgar origin.

I support the view that all over Europe we are descendants of the Middle Ages.
Since Imperial formations existed back then we cannot speak for pure populations.
We came out of a melting pot...obviously.
True. As for Hungarians, the great majority of contemporary ones are of Central European/Pannonian origin. Very few modern Hungarian have distinctively Asiatic appearance.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 02:21 AM   #27

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Ok but what this Pannonian population is?
Celtic or Slavic?

Have you studied Pannonians?
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Old March 28th, 2016, 02:36 AM   #28

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Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
Ok but what this Pannonian population is?
Celtic or Slavic?
I don't think it is a particular kind of population, but rather a geographical area populated by various peoples. I don't know much about pre-Roman population of this area, and I suspect we don't have many sources to tell us.
During the later Antiquity, the area around the Danube, roughly corresponding to parts of modern Austria, Slovakia and Hungary were settled by various Germanic tribes such as Marcomanni, Quadi and also possibly some Vandal and Sarmatian ones, though Sarmatians, an Iranic people, are a dangerously vague term.

During the early Middle Ages, the area consisting of modern Hungary and the Carpathian Basin was a part of early Slavic states, the First Bulgarian Empire and Great Moravia, but I don't know how much strong Slavic element was there.
Also, in the centuries preceding Hungarian conquest, Avars and various tribal coalitions settled parts of the Carpathian Basin.

Of course, it could be only my assumption, but I tend to think that the area was sparsely populated during the early Middle Ages.

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Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
Have you studied Pannonians?
Oh no, I've just done some very modest research on the topic. I probably don't know much more than you.

Last edited by Valens; March 28th, 2016 at 02:38 AM.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 03:59 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayatollah View Post
I agree, it probably goes the way you describe things.

All that I wanted to say is that people like Bulgars,Kumans,Huns etc. must have sth in common that got them distinguished from their enemies.
Their horse riding abilities and fighting style betrays their common Central Asian origin.

I recently got dismissed from the Greek army and I was amazed of the pluralism of the population of a country.
A guy that served to the Religous Department of the General Staff was tall and had Mongoloid facial features.
He was coming from a place named Domokos in Greece and after carefully searching origin of the word I ended up to a Hungarian word.

There's a part of Hungarians that after carefully observing their facial features make you question their stock.
Same thing applies to Bulgarians I spot over Greece.
There's a part of them with direct Turkic proto-Bulgar origin.

I support the view that all over Europe we are descendants of the Middle Ages.
Since Imperial formations existed back then we cannot speak for pure populations.
We came out of a melting pot...obviously.
You can find many ''exotic'' features in the isolated places of a country.At least that's true for some places in Greece.In my mountain village you can find people that would easily pass for northern europeans and others that could pass for kazakhs.But these ''exotic'' features don't necessarily tell us something about the influence of foreign populations.At least if we don't know the back-story of these isolated cases.

Also wiki says other stuff about the name Domokos.But who knows what the original name was....
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Old March 28th, 2016, 04:03 AM   #30
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In 1235 Friar Julian (Julianus barát) with some other Hungarian Dominican friars left Hungary for a trip to the East to try to find the motherland of Hungarians (Magyars ) - and those of them who stayed there when other ones started moving south and then west - to Pannonia.

This is the map of the trip of the friars

Click the image to open in full size.

They reached Bulgar. There they knew that the Hungaria Magna as they called their initial motherland was very near - two days of trip. Friar Julian visited that land and can easily speak with its inhabitants. The plase was somewhere in present-day Bashkortostan

In two years he returned there ones again and got to know that both Bulgaria and Hungary was defeated during the ivasion of the Tatars (Tatar-Mongols). And he was the first who brought to Europe the news of a new terrible threat that comes from the east
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