 | | European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia |
March 13th, 2010, 03:57 AM
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#31 | | Bard of Borneo
Joined: Oct 2007 From: Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA Posts: 8,394 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread
Not impossible at all:
A spook with a simple solution in an atomizer (as for a nasal spay) could spritz an entire bakery in 3 minutes, I would say. A partner could easily distract a clerk that long, and European bakeries did and some still have self-serve or open display of all wares.
Why not in a water supply? No control. Water is too mobile and too unpredictable. A food commodity that most everyone ate would be easier to see results in, whereas the water table would spread results far too afield to no scientifically what impact the LSD had.
This is my theory, if this happened.
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March 13th, 2010, 04:18 AM
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#32 | | Contrarian
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,585 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread Quote:
Originally Posted by crossroadclarence Not impossible at all:
A spook with a simple solution in an atomizer (as for a nasal spay) could spritz an entire bakery in 3 minutes, I would say. A partner could easily distract a clerk that long, and European bakeries did and some still have self-serve or open display of all wares. | French bread is best when it's fresh (often still warm, which will ruin the LSD). Customers usually show up en masse early in the morning, and then again in the mid-afternoon, to purchase hot, freshly leavened loaves as they are put out. This leaves no window for the spooks, except to contaminate a few loaves that are purchased throughout the day, between the morning and afternoon rush. Quote: |
Water is too mobile and too unpredictable.
| Actually, it's very predictable. Heck - it's metered. From records of the utility company, one could even calculate exactly how much water was used in a household on a given day. The dispersal would also be quite limited, since town water isn't pumped beyond the town. In 1951, most towns in France were using treated tap-water with controlled distribution systems. The one problem is chlorination. Chlorination rapidly spread throughout Europe following the war. In 1951 it is likely, but not certain, that a town in France would be using chlorinated water. Chlorine in even trace amounts destroys LSD on contact. However - the baker was probably using it too, so, if present, it's a problem either way.
Finally there just isn't one shred of convincing evidence for the fantastic theory, that wouldn't be expected in a case of ergot poisoning. Even if the fantastic is possible by some stretch of the imagination, it doesn't mean it is at all probable - not when the facts fit a mundane event. If I get into a fender bender, it's probably just normal inattention - not CIA mind-rays.
There is no doubt the CIA was involved in LSD experiments on unwitting subjects, however, I see no evidence for it here.
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March 13th, 2010, 05:55 AM
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#33 | | Bard of Borneo
Joined: Oct 2007 From: Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA Posts: 8,394 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread
I have worked in several European bakeries, although not in France.
NO one bought hot bread! As a matter of fact; bread was never put on display in a warm state, as no crust "snap" would have formed, a much desired characteristic. I think this may be an American concept.
The racks were filled before dawn, with matured, room temp loaves, back up being held in the bakery for a pre lunch rush.
Hence I see many opportunities, especially during these hey days of cloak and dagger.
The idea that LSD breaks down in heat of any kind is a mistake, as the body temperature itself would destroy it, according to that theory.
I will not address the water theory, as it was never a question in the article or in accusations: it is not part of the mix.
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March 13th, 2010, 06:45 AM
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#34 | | Seeker of the Light
Joined: Jul 2009 From: Israel Posts: 9,505 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread Quote:
Originally Posted by crossroadclarence I have worked in several European bakeries, although not in France.
NO one bought hot bread! As a matter of fact; bread was never put on display in a warm state, as no crust "snap" would have formed, a much desired characteristic. I think this may be an American concept.
The racks were filled before dawn, with matured, room temp loaves, back up being held in the bakery for a pre lunch rush.
Hence I see many opportunities, especially during these hey days of cloak and dagger.
The idea that LSD breaks down in heat of any kind is a mistake, as the body temperature itself would destroy it, according to that theory.
I will not address the water theory, as it was never a question in the article or in accusations: it is not part of the mix. | We always get the bread hot.
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March 13th, 2010, 07:23 AM
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#35 | | Bard of Borneo
Joined: Oct 2007 From: Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA Posts: 8,394 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread
Yes: I recall that when I was in Israel.
But this was not the case for me when I lived in Europe. However: each culture seems to have a different idea about bread.
The point is: the LSD could have been spritzed on the breads on the shelves before customers arrived en mass. It is not improbable, or far fetched.
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March 13th, 2010, 07:30 AM
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#36 | | Contrarian
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,585 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread Quote:
Originally Posted by crossroadclarence I have worked in several European bakeries, although not in France.
NO one bought hot bread! |
Bread in Europe is very different from country to country. Here: Bakeries in France bake four different batches of bread a day. Because French bread is best eaten fresh, the best time to go to the bakery in Paris is at 6am or in the afternoon. http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/arti...y-in-Paris/588 Quote: |
The idea that LSD breaks down in heat of any kind is a mistake, as the body temperature itself would destroy it, according to that theory.
| Of course it breaks down in the body. It's subjected to heat, oxygen, enzymes that break it down, and of course a wide variety of pH conditions, including some very powerful acids. The molecule is extraordinarily sensitive to all of these conditions. The half-life of LSD in a rat, measured in blood plasma levels, is about 20 minutes (though it is detectable in trace amounts for a few hours). The action of the drug itself stops fairly quickly - it's believed that it has ceased to bind to serotonin receptors long before the peak effects occur. It catalyzes some sort of reaction by antagonizing the receptors, and the effects continue long after the drug has been metabolized. Quote: |
LSD could have been spritzed on the breads on the shelves before customers arrived en mass. It is not improbable, or far fetched.
| It is most certainly improbable! Anything that involves spies spritzing people's food with drug-laced aerosols is an improbable explanation when dealing with something that has a far more mundane explanation to fit the facts. If you have a town that gets sick from e coli infected water - is it from organic pollutants leeching into the water table, or did the CIA put it there as a bioweapons test? The US military has tested E Coli as a possible bioweapon, after all. But ...
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Last edited by Edgewaters; March 13th, 2010 at 08:00 AM.
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March 13th, 2010, 08:06 AM
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#37 | | Bard of Borneo
Joined: Oct 2007 From: Borneo~ that big Island in S.E. ASIA Posts: 8,394 | Re: LSD, CIA and French Bread
Whatever, Edge...I'm merely asking folks to look at a man's theory, consider CIA Ops of the past and present. That's all...End of my concerns.
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