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Old January 11th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by tontonmakuta View Post
That's the way how western propaganda works. They make a fake, repost it many times and then present it as "evidence from social media".

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Aren't you just describing Russian trolls here?
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Old January 11th, 2017, 02:44 PM   #292
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very probable, they traded the Katyn controversy for some concessions from the West.
Nonsense. Provide proof of this assertion.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #293
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Deng Xiaoping was. For all the talk about Mao Zedong, modern-day China has largely abandoned his policies. Deng Xiaoping is the father of modern China, not Mao Zedong. Stalin is just an uncivilized butcher who ruled poor people and kept them poor. Deng Xiaoping set out to improve the lives of the average Chinese person and while China still has a long way to go, they're on the right track, thanks to the policies of Deng.

Last edited by Taharqa; January 11th, 2017 at 07:30 PM.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #294

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Aren't you just describing Russian trolls here?
4chan, Wilson, GoldenShowerGate

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Old January 11th, 2017, 11:12 PM   #295

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This question emerges with surprising periodicity. No, he was not the greatest leader. He methodically created own cult that lived decades after his death. He clearly was a talented autodidact, and either had natural Jesuit tendencies, or maybe early seminary education molded his character in such a form. He was also naturally paranoid, and with age it must have turned into something more serious. But the greatest, he was not. Neither for own people, nor for the world. He just destroyed anyone that could provide a minimal competition to him.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 11:19 PM   #296

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Beria declared his amnesty after Stalin was dead. Not before. Before Stalin died he was busy running the apparatus of repression namely the NKVD.
According to book about Beria, it was Beria who minded Katyn massacre - he believed the Poles could be useful. The person who ardently insisted on killing the Polish officers was Mekhlis, and finally Stalin agreed with him.

Anyone who wanted to stay the head of NKVD and survive for a long time would behave exactly like Beria did. He had good examples - the fates of Yagoda or Ezhov, his predecessors, and he did not want to repeat their destinies. However, he was emerging as a reasonable political leader, way above the rest in Politbureau, after Stalin's death. We only know what he did - the amnesty - and the plan to offer unification of Germany as the trading card to the West, but it speaks favorably for him.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 11:23 PM   #297

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He was also naturally paranoid,
and who wasn't back then?

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Beria did. He had good examples - the fates of Yagoda or Ezhov, his predecessors, and he did not want to repeat their destinies.
he ended up exactly like them.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 01:04 AM   #298

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Originally Posted by arkteia View Post
According to book about Beria, it was Beria who minded Katyn massacre - he believed the Poles could be useful. The person who ardently insisted on killing the Polish officers was Mekhlis, and finally Stalin agreed with him.

Anyone who wanted to stay the head of NKVD and survive for a long time would behave exactly like Beria did. He had good examples - the fates of Yagoda or Ezhov, his predecessors, and he did not want to repeat their destinies. However, he was emerging as a reasonable political leader, way above the rest in Politbureau, after Stalin's death. We only know what he did - the amnesty - and the plan to offer unification of Germany as the trading card to the West, but it speaks favorably for him.
We also have to grant that Beria managed to start and keep on track the Soviet nuclear bomb programme. Beria had certainly some good ideas which he wanted to put into practice after Stalin was dead. But his past caught up with him. The curses of his numerous victims, many of whom he tortured personally, must have caught up with him.
It is also noteworthy that Blokhin , the assassin of Katyn as well as numerous other killing sprees at Lubyanka and elsewhere, who boasted of his killing powers, was insane when he died or as some sources say committed suicide.

Last edited by rvsakhadeo; January 12th, 2017 at 01:08 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #299

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Yes, he was.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #300
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Deng Xiaoping was. For all the talk about Mao Zedong, modern-day China has largely abandoned his policies..
yes.and he did transform radically transform china without excessive brutality.
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