Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 16th, 2016, 02:16 AM   #31

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 7,476

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tashbaba View Post
"Russian victory against fascism" is the biggest tall tale since both the Nazis and Communists were socialists with slight differences. Soviets invaded Poland together and entered the war side by side with the Nazis, organized military parades together. Soviet newspapers of the time were full of admiration for Hitler that said "to oppose Nazism and Hitler means opposing Lenin". But Stalin, who shared Europe with Hitler and fueled the Nazi war machine for years, suddenly became "the victor" next to the U.S. and Britain. If Hitler did not invade the U.S.S.R, probably they would have won the war too.
But the Russians won against Nazism, did they not ? Ordinary common folk of the then Soviet Union, not only Russians but other ethnic groups too, including the Ukrainians, fought to the bitter end with the Nazi forces, and won against a brave and superiorly organised foe.There is no contesting this simple fact. As a poster stated above, they won this war inspite of the Soviet Govt. and Stalin.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 16th, 2016, 02:28 AM   #32

lukaszrzepinski's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Oslo
Posts: 269

Good points.
To add my 3 cents: Stalin is responsible for disaster of Soviet Army in 1941 !

The army having in field some 15.000 tanks easily fell victim of Wehrmacht which had less combat equipment.
Purges of officers and atmosphere of terror made those millions in field a group of unorganized people with a lot of newest and expensive military toys which they were not able to operate. Thanks to his "human resource policies" the divisions and corpses were led by former leutnants and companies and battalions by former seargants.
Such simple maneuvres like march of armoured corps from point A to point B was resulting in 1941 in non combat losses of half tanks (meaning hundreds).
Not mentioning morale of "highly motivated" Soviet patriots dropping equipment on gossips that Germans are 100km from the place. Of course there were many exceptions but annihilation of multimillion Soviet army equipped with dozens of thousands of world-class military equipment is fully Stalin's responsibility.
lukaszrzepinski is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 02:29 AM   #33

General Winter's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: In the Land of Russia where the Shadows lie
Posts: 815
Blog Entries: 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
Yes, I admit that I was wrong about the total number...a figure of 60 million unnatural deaths attributable to the regime of Stalin.
As soon as the gentleman was caught in lie he immediatelly dropped the figure more than half.I'm sorry,sir, before your last statements I took your posts seriously,now I see I was wrong.No use of disputing with such sort of opponents.

Back to contest.Here is another nominee for champion.The input was :

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Winter View Post
Kiliing hundreds of millions in the country with 1,8 hundred of million population - this statement is a champion!
The output of a dude is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukaszrzepinski View Post
Oh... just 1.8 million? ...many Russian people have Stockholm syndrome and it requires treatment because trying to convince world that oppressor was not so bad (because he did not kill 10 million but just 1.8 million) will never succeed.
General Winter is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 02:37 AM   #34

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 7,476

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Winter View Post
As soon as the gentleman was caught in lie he immediatelly dropped the figure more than half.I'm sorry,sir, before your last statements I took your posts seriously,now I see I was wrong.No use of disputing with such sort of opponents.

Back to contest.Here is another nominee for champion.The input was :



The output of a dude is:
I think you need to moderate your language. I did not lie regarding the figure of the dead under Stalin, that will mean a deliberate falsification. I did not falsify deliberately. It was a blunder committed in haste. I repaired the damage as soon as I got my data right. Please be more courteous in your posts.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 02:57 AM   #35
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: Bulgaria
Posts: 2,372

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
The revised Census of the Soviet Union of 1937 ( ? ) gave figures of 170 millions for the total population of the Soviet Union, experts say that it was inflated by about 1.5 million.
I am aware of the census of 1937. My source is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...e_Soviet_Union
(please check the reference). It provides data for 1939 & 1941 right before the war. Please note that baltic soviet socialistic republics were added to the union in the mid 1940.
At Each Kilometer is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 03:20 AM   #36

zincwarrior's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Texas
Posts: 4,638

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
I vote for killing nearly all his senior army officers because of paranoia immediately before a world war.
How do you say...BINGO!

Also:
1. Refusing to take defensive steps during the days before German attack, putting his fingers in his ears and shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING!"

2. Ordering insanely stupid attacks and not listening to Stavka prior to Stalingrad and up to Kursk. Kharkov being an excellent example.
zincwarrior is online now  
Old November 16th, 2016, 03:34 AM   #37

Ajax_Minoan's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Washington State, USA.
Posts: 688
Blog Entries: 4

I will say that few people in world history were running as much territory as Stalin at the end of WW2. For a short time he was running Mongolia; part of Manchuria, and even North Korea. This is before you even talk of Eastern Europe, and massive add-ons to the Soviet Union.
Ajax_Minoan is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 03:57 AM   #38

General Winter's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: In the Land of Russia where the Shadows lie
Posts: 815
Blog Entries: 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Minoan View Post
I don't think people realize how powerful a nation the Soviet Union was when the Germans invaded.
How do you say it was powerfull when the brutal dictator killed 60 millions,ie all adult population of the country,as one of gentlemen disclosed here?
General Winter is offline  
Old November 16th, 2016, 04:52 AM   #39

robto's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 4,962

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanks View Post
Depends on who you ask. If you ask the 30 million white christians his communism forced in the gulags...well they wouldnt be able to answer cause he killed them.

Hitler was a superior leader to Stalin. The winners write history
As I said earlier, I express doubt about the 30 million number of deaths caused by Stalin's oppression. The real number according to recent scholarship is significantly lower and it's more attributable to famine caused by his economic policies, rather than direct oppression.

By the way, why did you have to identify those victims as "Christian" in the first place? What's the relevance of it? Were they prosecuted and killed specifically because of their Christian faith or identity? If it was, please explain.
robto is online now  
Old November 16th, 2016, 05:02 AM   #40

robto's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 4,962

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Minoan View Post
I believe the Soviet Union contributed the greatest part to the fall of the Axis powers in Europe in spite of Stalin, not because of him. I don't think people realize how powerful a nation the Soviet Union was when the Germans invaded.
The poor leadership of Stalin regarding the lead up to the Nazi invasion, and for many months after is some of the poorest leadership by any leader ever.
The people of the Soviet Union were just some rugged dudes who didn't like to give up. Their weapons innovations are way too underrated for the era as well. Of course, there is the massive size of the country and the climate. I give Stalin very little of the credit.

Stalin's Breakdown - History in an HourHistory in an Hour
You have to fully put into account that the Soviet Union was a powerful nation, gifted with weapons innovation and great industrial capacity thanks to the economic and industrial policies of Stalin himself.

USSR right after the death of Lenin was a completely fragmented, destroyed, poor nation composed of illiterate peasants with almost no industrial capacity whatsoever. Stalin's policies during the 1930s prepared the nation for the war, even despite the fact that he committed some major flaws along the way, like the great purges that weakened the military leadership.

If Russia didn't had Stalin during the 1930s, or rather if Russia was still ruled under the Tzar or some ineffective liberal regime during operation Barbarossa, the Germans would achieve a tremendous victory. The guy completely united the country for a common cause, that was completely different to what happened in WWI.

Note: the climatic factor is hugely overrated, btw...
robto is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
20th, century, leader, stalin



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mid 19th century mortars: the basis on 20th century artillery? betgo War and Military History 2 April 7th, 2014 08:20 AM
Did stalin do terrible things before he become leader of russia wario2255 General History 9 February 4th, 2014 09:55 AM
The 20th century: the most eventful and important century in human history lokariototal General History 22 July 2nd, 2013 12:36 PM
The 20th century: A century of global brainwashing without precedent? lokariototal General History 29 November 21st, 2011 04:42 AM
The three greatest French Presidents of the 20th century? Thessalonian European History 6 October 29th, 2011 05:05 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.