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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Firstly, Beorna it was not evidence against your posting. You assume too much importance to yourself. It was a loose discussion between me and others, not you. Everybody stated what is the name of Czech Kingdom and most of the answer from east of Elbe was “Czech Kingdom”. You did not react to any of this post, but of course you must react to my.
So be it, you just must be yourself and this will never change. No hope at all. Thanks you for reading my post anyway.
I asked my colleague from work (he is of Turkish origin) what the name is, he used the ward Cek. It was just for curiosity reason only but your reaction obliged me to answer.
Now could we think why Turks use word “Cek”, not “Bohemia”?
Turks come to Europe as a last ethnic group and they had no luggage of Latin (or German) language influence. They just called the new countries they encountered by the name the inhabitans of encountered counteies actually used to call their state, not by Latin or German influence names.
The one before last ethnic group in Europe was the Ugro-Finish group including today Hungarians and Finish people. I do not haw Fins call Czech Kingdom, Hungarians call it by “Czech “name, not “Bohemia”. It is not a direct evidence but it is a very strong circumstantial evidence against you stand. Also, just keep in mind that Hungarian Kingdom is the “Hungarian Kingdom” not a “Pannonia Kingdom”.(as the Latin name will suggest)
Germans, even me, use the word Czech, too. Can you show me where i wrote, that Czechs are not allowed to call themselves or to be called Czechs? I know i could write it a thousand times and you would not realize it. Both terms are used by different people, in different times. I did never deny it. All I said was, that the term Czech kingdom, especially if it is linked with maps that include Brandenburg, the Lausitz, Austria and silesia is not helpful, because it insinuates an ethnic state and is exclusive. Perhaps you can read the postings of Czechicus, then you can see, that he wrote, that Bohemian and Czech are exchangeable - BTW, I wrote this, too - and therefor Bohemian kingdom is the better term. But of course this will not convince you.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #292
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Perhaps you can read the postings of Czechicus, then you can see, that he wrote, that Bohemian and Czech are exchangeable - BTW, I wrote this, too - and therefor Bohemian kingdom is the better term. But of course this will not convince you.
I fail to see logic in your statement. Claiming that two terms are interchangeable and then that one of them is preferable is sort of contradictory.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:51 AM   #293
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Germans, even me, use the word Czech, too. Can you show me where i wrote, that Czechs are not allowed to call themselves or to be called Czechs? I know i could write it a thousand times and you would not realize it. Both terms are used by different people, in different times. I did never deny it. All I said was, that the term Czech kingdom, especially if it is linked with maps that include Brandenburg, the Lausitz, Austria and silesia is not helpful, because it insinuates an ethnic state and is exclusive. Perhaps you can read the postings of Czechicus, then you can see, that he wrote, that Bohemian and Czech are exchangeable - BTW, I wrote this, too - and therefor Bohemian kingdom is the better term. But of course this will not convince you.
It seems that you till did not grasp the sense of this discussion.
You deny them to call their country by their native name during the middle ages period despite the fact that there was almost no German migration in Czech land at the beginning of Czech Kingdom. I’m not denying the fact that in late middle age there was a big migration of German into this land. As all migrant from around the world (except political or religious migration) they have been looking for better life and they have been allowed to settle there. Same of them were just basic cheep labourers, same were very skilled tradesmen and artists. All had influence on the development of this country. The problem is that for this hospitality they not always pay back in the same currency. This include attempt to change historical name of Czech Kingdom to something what will diminish the Czech ownership of their own country.

Anyway, now is the Christmas period and we should celebrate this season peacefully.

Happy Christmas and happy New Year (Frohe Weihnachten and ein gluckisches neues Jahr.)
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Old December 17th, 2012, 02:32 AM   #294
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It seems that you till did not grasp the sense of this discussion.
You deny them to call their country by their native name during the middle ages period despite the fact that there was almost no German migration in Czech land at the beginning of Czech Kingdom.

I don't deny them anything. i have said this now a lot of times and I tried to explain why. If you hadn#t understand it till now, i am not hopeful it will change anyway.

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I’m not denying the fact that in late middle age there was a big migration of German into this land. As all migrant from around the world (except political or religious migration) they have been looking for better life and they have been allowed to settle there. Same of them were just basic cheep labourers, same were very skilled tradesmen and artists. All had influence on the development of this country. The problem is that for this hospitality they not always pay back in the same currency. This include attempt to change historical name of Czech Kingdom to something what will diminish the Czech ownership of their own country.
That is nonsense. I wrote it just above and czechicus agrees with it, I suppose you don't see him as german nationalist, too. Bohemus and Czechus are exchangeable. So calling them Bohemian is not diminishing the Czech ownership of this country.
What do you mean with "they didn't pay it back in the same currency?". Again the propaganda of a fifth column? May I remember you to the thread about the heros of WWII. There are AFAIR three people with a german or partly german background mentioned as Polish heros. I have told you in another part, how ethnic germans were arrested in 1939, even a priest, imprisoned and mistreated, sometimes murdered. Even ethnic Germans who had family members in the Polish army. So the question "who didn't give something back" is perhaps not as easy as your simple view of the world

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Anyway, now is the Christmas period and we should celebrate this season peacefully.
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Happy Christmas and happy New Year (Frohe Weihnachten and ein gluckisches neues Jahr.)
We know us since nearly three years and all this time you are insulting me, calling me a liar, giving me names, try to ridicule me, push me in a nazi corner. I really see no reason, why you should be polite to me just because you celebrate Christmas. If you don't want to be polite the rest of the year, you can keep your wishes for yourself.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:04 AM   #295
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I fail to see logic in your statement. Claiming that two terms are interchangeable and then that one of them is preferable is sort of contradictory.
Exactly. Beorna filled this thread and few others with proclamation our "Czech" version is wrong and the latin one is correct and better. We all try to explain him he is wrong and he is ending the debate both terms are equal.....this sounds at least illogical or Beorna has a very poor memory....
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #296
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Exactly. Beorna filled this thread and few others with proclamation our "Czech" version is wrong and the latin one is correct and better. We all try to explain him he is wrong and he is ending the debate both terms are equal.....this sounds at least illogical or Beorna has a very poor memory....
You try to annoy me until I make a mistake, so that you can report me, isn't it? I can't explain it different.
I am tired to repeat my point of you, especially you don't want to understand me and distort my saying anyway.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:25 AM   #297
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You try to annoy me until I make a mistake, so that you can report me, isn't it? I can't explain it different.
I am tired to repeat my point of you, especially you don't want to understand me and distort my saying anyway.
NO Beorna, i never reported anyone and i never even argued with anyone here in this forum. It is u who permanently ignore arguments of others, not only those mine. It is u who permanently complaining about offences, not only from my attempts to explain obvious facts. It is u who sending me messages i was not punished enough and i will pay for my mistakes.
Simply look at yourself, several people try peacefuly explain you u are mistaken and u blaming them of offences, u harrasing by reporting to mods etc....i can handle any debate without mods assistance, i trust nothing is wrong with us but u proving there is something wrong with your ability to debate.

We dont have troubles withother Germans as u blame us we are nationalists. I will enjoy any debate with Germans even about painful periods of our mutual history, of course if it will be debate even with no matter they have different opinions. But debate with you seems to be imppossible. I will be glad if u stop to complain about our opinions and if u find other targets of your complexes.

Thats all.

Last edited by Excalibur; December 17th, 2012 at 04:31 AM.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 05:22 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
NO Beorna, i never reported anyone and i never even argued with anyone here in this forum. It is u who permanently ignore arguments of others, not only those mine. It is u who permanently complaining about offences, not only from my attempts to explain obvious facts. It is u who sending me messages i was not punished enough and i will pay for my mistakes.
Simply look at yourself, several people try peacefuly explain you u are mistaken and u blaming them of offences, u harrasing by reporting to mods etc....i can handle any debate without mods assistance, i trust nothing is wrong with us but u proving there is something wrong with your ability to debate.

We dont have troubles withother Germans as u blame us we are nationalists. I will enjoy any debate with Germans even about painful periods of our mutual history, of course if it will be debate even with no matter they have different opinions. But debate with you seems to be imppossible. I will be glad if u stop to complain about our opinions and if u find other targets of your complexes.

Thats all.
So this is what I wrote to you? I said you havn't paid enough as long as you are not willing to excuse for your nazi insults and go on with it. Don't lie, i can publish it.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 09:16 AM   #299
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The Swedish and English are as well close related to the germans...and?
The term lechitic is scientific, but probably our super-experts here with "E" will now probably blame me for this statement as they did it for the Bohemian statement. They evolved a similar language during the 7th and 10th century. But like the Germanics they were never a people.
The differences between slavic languages are much smaller than between other european languages. Between Polish and Czech the differences can be compared not to those between German and English but between Denish and Norwegian. As for Lechitic tribes like Poles, Rani or Veletii, in the 10th century they all spoke the same language.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #300
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The differences between slavic languages are much smaller than between other european languages. Between Polish and Czech the differences can be compared not to those between German and English but between Denish and Norwegian. As for Lechitic tribes like Poles, Rani or Veletii, in the 10th century they all spoke the same language.
The germanics from the continent moved after 450 to the british islands. At those days the Slavs were at the beginning of their history. There were several waves of people migrating to recent Poland, Czechoslovakia and Germany. In the very early times of the Slavic migration we had already three different cultures, the rague-Korchak, the Kolochin and the Penkovka-culture.
There are no sources about the migration like on the balkans. The migration was forced by thedecline of the Thuringian empire after 531, the avar raids in 561/7, the emigration of the langobards from Pannonia and of the baiwari from Pannonia and Bohemiain 568 and the destruction of germanic reigns between elbe river and oder short before 600.
Dendro-chronology state a slow immigration into Poland from 450, Bohemia during the second half of the 6th century and Germany in the 8th century. There are report, that already around 631 Sorbs existed east of Elbe. So perhaps already in the 7th century the first slavs came. They came from different directions, along the mitteleuropean plains, via the elbe river from the Balkans, along the Erzgebirge and carpatian mountains. They did not come as unique people, but evolved in place similar structures and languages. Just think about the Chorvati. So we had very different ethnics there.
So the lechitic tribes are a artificial group of tribes that spoke similar languages. But that means not, that they were close related or shared a common ethnic identity.
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