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Edward March 26th, 2010 05:49 AM

Czech Kingdom
 
On the land of today Czech Republic, there was a powerful Czech Kingdom spanning the Middle age and Renaissance. Could we discuss history of this, once powerful, Kingdom?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%C3%B6hmen.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssite_Wars.jpg

Belloc March 26th, 2010 08:30 AM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
The Kingdom of Bohemia you mean?

beorna March 26th, 2010 09:51 AM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Since 1310 it was under the House of Luxembourg. From 1355 Karl IV, as Karl I of Bohemia was Kaiser of the HRE. 1335 the house of Luxembourg got Silesia and even Tausitz and Brandenburg were sometimes part of this reign.
BTW he demanded from his German fellow that their children learn as well as German the Czech language and the emperial office in Prague was important for the modern German language. His son Wenzel was Roman-German King till 1400 were he was deposed. He was followed by hi brother Sigismund till 1433, who brought Brandenburg, Hungary and Croatia to the reign. When he died his son-in -law Albrecht of Habsburg got his reign.

Excalibur March 26th, 2010 01:10 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Another map of Czech Kingdom in 13th and 14th century

http://www.mzv.cz/public/48/90/f9/15...kralovstvi.jpg

beorna March 26th, 2010 04:12 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Yes, that was probably the greatest expansion, but belloc said it before, the term Czech kingdom is not historical, it is Bohemian kingdom.

Edward March 26th, 2010 09:17 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 233227)
Another map of Czech Kingdom in 13th and 14th century

http://www.mzv.cz/public/48/90/f9/15...kralovstvi.jpg

Pretty big. Is it called Czech Kingdom or Bohemian Kingdom in your country?

Excalibur March 26th, 2010 11:49 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward (Post 233621)
Pretty big. Is it called Czech Kingdom or Bohemian Kingdom in your country?

Not even big as it really was:) The map forgot to mention fact the Vaclav II aquired also Polish and Hugarian crown at late 12th century.

Official name in Czech language is Czech Kingdom (Ceske Kralovstvi or Kralovstvi Ceske) and Duchy of Czech before 1085.


English language use name Bohemia - origin is in latin name from a Roman report for place where lived a celtic tribe - Bohemians.

Sources:
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Ce...A1lovstv%C3%AD
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic"]Czech Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So who lived in historical lands of current Czech?

1. Celtic tribes - Bohemians - They lived in Czech land from around 3th century BC, later together with Germans. They also moved to south - Italian city of Bologna was one of their cities. Some resources talking about voluntar disappearing from Czech coz they left to help Romans against Dacia. Other resources tatling about aggressive moving to south.
Celtic oppida in Czech lands - Zavist, Stradonice.
Meaning of name of Celtic tribe means Horrible or Fearful.

2. German tribes - Hermundurove, Markomani and also Kvadove (Slovakia) - i am not sure about names in English.
First real historical person is Marobud (Marbod, Marobod, Maroboduus) - a Markoman German loyal to Rome even in Roman battles against Germans. He was born around 30BC.
Marbud is known for his fight against Arminius. German historians talk about 70 000 soldiers and 4000 riders of Marbud army! I am really not sure if it can be real.
3. Czechs (Slavs) from around 500AD.

Map of Marbud regnum

http://www.pise.cz/blog/img/jarmik/54931.jpg

I will try to ad names of all Czech states created in this region in a next post to make an order in this theme.

beorna March 27th, 2010 05:22 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur (Post 233655)
Not even big as it really was:) The map forgot to mention fact the Vaclav II aquired also Polish and Hugarian crown at late 12th century.

Official name in Czech language is Czech Kingdom (Ceske Kralovstvi or Kralovstvi Ceske) and Duchy of Czech before 1085.

English language use name Bohemia - origin is in latin name from a Roman report for place where lived a celtic tribe - Bohemians.

Sources:
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Ce...A1lovstv%C3%AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic

So who lived in historical lands of current Czech?

1. Celtic tribes - Bohemians - They lived in Czech land from around 3th century BC, later together with Germans. They also moved to south - Italian city of Bologna was one of their cities. Some resources talking about voluntar disappearing from Czech coz they left to help Romans against Dacia. Other resources tatling about aggressive moving to south.
Celtic oppida in Czech lands - Zavist, Stradonice.
Meaning of name of Celtic tribe means Horrible or Fearful.

2. German tribes - Hermundurove, Markomani and also Kvadove (Slovakia) - i am not sure about names in English.
First real historical person is Marobud (Marbod, Marobod, Maroboduus) - a Markoman German loyal to Rome even in Roman battles against Germans. He was born around 30BC.
Marbud is known for his fight against Arminius. German historians talk about 70 000 soldiers and 4000 riders of Marbud army! I am really not sure if it can be real.
3. Czechs (Slavs) from around 500AD.

Map of Marbud regnum

http://www.pise.cz/blog/img/jarmik/54931.jpg

I will try to ad names of all Czech states created in this region in a next post to make an order in this theme.

The name of Bohemia comes from the tribe of the Boii. They settled in the Early La Tene. parts of them migrated to the Balkans and Italy. The last we here about them was during the Helvetian migration to Gaul in 58 BC. It is not clear why they gave up Bohemia, but they were followed by Markomanni and Quadi around 9 BC. It is not clear if the Hermunduri also settled in Bohemia, but it is sure that they ruled about the Germanic nations there for some periods. the last we have from marcomanni in Bohemis is from about 400, as well as from Quadi. At those days a lot of them took part in the great Vandalic migration. From 400 the remaining groups were called just Suebi. around the last quarter of the 5th century these areas were under the Langobardi which left in 568. But it is not clear when the Germanic groups gave up Bohemia. We shouldn't expect a Slavic migration to Bohemia before 550 and probably they came after the Langobardi left for Italy.
It is unclear if the Czechs came as tribe to Bohemia or if they developed in Bohemia from older Slavic units. In 622 the Frank Samo founded an Slav kingdom but it is unclear if Bohemia belonged to it, but fore sure it was not the center. After the end of Samo's reign we don't hear about Bohemia about 200 years.

BTW Marbods troops weren't only Markomanni. Other gentes and personal units followed him. So the number of 74.000 troops mustn't be wrong.

beorna March 27th, 2010 05:47 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
the oldest sources speak of Bohemia and of the duces Boemanorum and later of rex Boemannorum. No source is speaking of Czech Kindom or duchy. So it is just a Czech term without historic base.

sylla1 March 27th, 2010 06:44 PM

Re: Czech Kingdom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beorna (Post 234117)
the oldest sources speak of Bohemia and of the duces Boemanorum and later of rex Boemannorum. No source is speaking of Czech Kindom or duchy. So it is just a Czech term without historic base.

The Celtic Boii (plural of Boius, probably "warrior") were recorded at least since Polybius (II century BC); the name of the region (Boiohaemum, from the addition of the PIE root Haimaz, "home" ) was already used by Velleius Paterculus (I century AD) and Tacitus.


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