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Old January 11th, 2017, 03:15 AM   #11

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But, but but, they found a pot!

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To understand the irony, it's probably best to read the BBC report:

"Prof Peter Field, a renowned expert in Arthurian literature, said: "It was quite by chance. I was looking at some maps, and suddenly all the ducks lined up.

"I believe I may have solved a 1,400-year-old mystery.""


This is the nature of "renowned experts" and yes, I know it wasn't Camulodunum and the only serious suggestions are that it might possibly be Cambodunum and even maybe the Campodunum refered to by Bede (B.II, Ch. XIV.8). The location and/or equivalence of Cambodunum and Campodunum have never been established.

It ought to serve as a warning that renowned experts and university professors too can be guilty of using name similarity to 'prove' their own pet theories. I am also surprised that he didn't know about it before either as William Camden was writing about it in the 16th century.

The important aspect of this site is that the vicus remained inhabited after the fort was abandonned in around 140AD. The hasty 1969 excavations concluded that the vicus too had been abandonned at the same time but, they had to press on and build a new motorway over the site. In 2007 they did excavate a small untouched part and immediately started bringing up surprising new evidence which indicated that it was still in use in the 4th century. Old victorian maps show a 'site of a roman circus' but all this evidence is now lost. A great shame as there was something there, possibly a mansio, though personally, I am not a believer in any one particular Arthur story anyway. I'd be happy if it could be shown to be Bede's Campodunum.
Arthurs pot de chambre sorry chamber pot?
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Old January 11th, 2017, 03:20 AM   #12
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No, I'm only familar with the itinery regarding Cambodunum. The distances are nine miles from York to Calcaria, then 20 to Cambodunum and another 18 to Mamucio (Manchester). Thats 47 miles. However it is 71 modern miles from York to Manchester via the M62, which would be 77 Roman miles or thereabouts. There appears to be a missing section. The 18 miles from Cambodunum to Mamucio would indicate Slack. However, the 20 miles from Calcaria to Cambodunum would suggest somewhere around Cleckheaton. Wherever this missing stage is might be the Camulodono referred to in the Ravenna Cosmography. The equivalence by some of Camulodono and Camulodunum is an error because of confusion with Ptolemy's mention of a Camunlodunum which, it is suspected, had been wrongly transcribed, not that I would know how Καμουνλόδουνον should read anyway.

Camelot however is, as far as I know, fictional but based on retellings of several stories which have become conflated.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 04:14 AM   #13
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The equivalence by some of Camulodono and Camulodunum is an error because of confusion with Ptolemy's mention of a Camunlodunum which, it is suspected, had been wrongly transcribed, not that I would know how Καμουνλόδουνον should read anyway.
Thanks to a classical education which, at the time, I perhaps did not appreciate as I should have done, I can confirm that the Greek letters read 'Kamounlodounon'. Greek had no 'C' and their 'K' was hard, so to our ears, 'Camounlodounon' would also be a legitimate rendering.

Both Camulodono and Camulodunum seem to mean the same thing, so I'd be inclined to see it as a doublet rather than referring to two separate places. 'Calunio' and 'Gallunio' in the Ravenna Cosmography immediately follow Camuloduno and also look like a doublet.

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Camelot however is, as far as I know, fictional but based on retellings of several stories which have become conflated.
I'd agree. I see no reason to waste any time in a search for the 'real' Camelot.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 05:55 AM   #14
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Thanks to a classical education which, at the time, I perhaps did not appreciate as I should have done, I can confirm that the Greek letters read 'Kamounlodounon'.
It's only what I have been told :-) It's not my work.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #15
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It's only what I have been told :-) It's not my work.
Absolutely understood!
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