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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:53 AM   #1

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Have the pre-indo-europeans ever done anything relevant?


Have the pre-indo-europeans ever done anything relevant (such as an objectively positive innovation that affects us even today, or a relevant historical deed, something like that) ? Or are they simply ''the guys who got wrecked by the indo-europeans into the ashes of history, with no relevant legacy to their name'' ?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:04 AM   #2

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IIRC, some folks hv speculated that guys like Trojans, Mycenaeans, Philistines, Phoenicians, Sea Peoples etc. might hv been Pelasgians, and thereby pre-IE people. Or perhaps IE people's rivals who were assimilated by IE people.

I think it was more a case of gradual demographic overwhelming, rather than sheer acute physical destruction.

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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:18 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by History Craft View Post
Have the pre-indo-europeans ever done anything relevant (such as an objectively positive innovation that affects us even today, or a relevant historical deed, something like that) ? Or are they simply ''the guys who got wrecked by the indo-europeans into the ashes of history, with no relevant legacy to their name'' ?
E-e... Stonehenge?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:23 AM   #4

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IIRC, some folks hv speculated that guys like Trojans, Mycenaeans, Philistines, Phoenicians, Sea Peoples etc. might hv been Pelasgians, and thereby pre-IE people. Or perhaps IE people's rivals who were assimilated by IE people.

I think it was more a case of gradual demographic overwhelming, rather than sheer acute physical destruction.
Yeah but it's pretty certain most of these guys almost certainly weren't the pre-indo-europeans.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:27 AM   #5

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E-e... Stonehenge?
Hmm... it is something pretty amazing. Even more, by itself it symbolize the pre-indo-europeans pretty well (something old and mysterious, a relic from an age forgotten).
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:28 AM   #6
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The Basques? Their language is the last remaining descendant of pre-IE languages and the basques themselves are supposed to be a 'remnant' of pre-IE population.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:55 AM   #7

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Have the pre-indo-europeans ever done anything relevant (such as an objectively positive innovation that affects us even today, or a relevant historical deed, something like that) ? Or are they simply ''the guys who got wrecked by the indo-europeans into the ashes of history, with no relevant legacy to their name'' ?
First and near firsts:

Social Stratification/Ruling class: Evidenced by Varna graves

Specialization of labor: copper and gold smelters, pottery

Writing: Vinca Script

Trade networks: copper and salt are known to be traded with Volga and Cyclades

Sciences: Smelting, others

Agriculture: Known since Vinca times

Very early monumental architecture: Solnisata, Stone henge, New Grange, Cairn of Barnenez, Malta Temples, many others

Earliest wheel: Vinca

First Copper works: Vinca

Oldest gold cache: Varna

Cities: Vinca, Talianki

Calender/Astronomical knoweldge: Goseck Circle

Early civilizations and high cultures: Vinca, Varna, Minoan, Funnel Beaker, Nuraghic, etc.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:57 AM   #8

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First and near firsts:

Social Stratification/Ruling class: Evidenced by Varna graves

Specialization of labor: copper and gold smelters, pottery

Writing: Vinca Script

Trade networks: copper and salt are known to be traded with Volga and Cyclades

Sciences: Smelting, others

Agriculture: Known since Vinca times

Very early monumental architecture: Solnisata, Stone henge, New Grange, Cairn of Barnenez, Malta Temples, many others

Earliest wheel: Vinca

First Copper works: Vinca

Oldest gold cache: Varna

Cities: Vinca, Talianki

Calender/Astronomical knoweldge: Goseck Circle

Early civilizations and high cultures: Vinca, Varna, Minoan, Funnel Beaker, Nuraghic, etc.
Did the subsequent european populations take these skills and concepts from the pre-indo-europeans or from other sources/made them themselves?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 03:00 AM   #9

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Did the subsequent european populations take these skills and concepts from the pre-indo-europeans or from other sources/made them themselves?
I am not sure that anyone fully understands that, but, since some of the Old European populations were not completely replaced in places like the Balkans and Mediterranean, and since classical Europe happened where some of the old populations remained, I would speculate that they learned a great deal.

It is known that the Minoans were a huge influence.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 03:46 AM   #10

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I am not sure that anyone fully understands that, but, since some of the Old European populations were not completely replaced in places like the Balkans and Mediterranean, and since classical Europe happened where some of the old populations remained, I would speculate that they learned a great deal.
Hmmm, good points.
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