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Old November 7th, 2017, 01:09 AM   #21

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Merci Isleifson, you are a source of all kind of subjects...even an article on eunuchs...I read it all...and even the author has to be respected for his in depth research.

I thank also Josefa for her many to the point messages.

Kind regards from your friend Paul from the borderland (Lotharingen) as you.
Thank you Paul. Yes the story is bit harsh, but that's just the way it was.
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Old November 7th, 2017, 01:12 AM   #22

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On a slight side note, the Great Almanzor's policy was changing the Caliphal (Cordoba) army (of Cordoba) to be almost entirely professional and mercenary (and mixed) - to avoid any power bases within the Caliphate.

The berbers were recruited from Africa (as opposed to 'Spanish' berbers from an earlier era). The other main component was Slavs, who were sold to them by the Franks.

Probably not too bad a deal, the pay was all in loot, from Almanzor's 50-odd successful razzias to the north. Slavs formed one of the contingents which made up the mozaic of muslim Spain as the Caliphate collapsed later.
Correct.
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Old November 7th, 2017, 12:46 PM   #23
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Hello Historum.. first time poster sometime lurker but lifelong fan of history...

Lately I've been thinking a lot for whatever reason about a kind of late Roman dark/middle ages era... in fact I'm not sure if Charlemagne would be better off in Ancient History or here...

Anyway! My remembrance of Charlemagne is based on blurbs in one of those old kind of Middle School history textbooks.. and basically he kinda stuck with me more than most figures.

If I had to say why it was something like "Warlord vanquishes and defeats so and so and such and such" but that was with a lot of figures, but specifically the part about him wanting to learn how to write, and the tablet under the pillow story but being too old at that point.

These days of course with so much more information available, I guess it would be, what else is there to say about this person?

So now I've learned that in addition to the above he was prone to eating meat when it was against doctor's orders.. that he was also known as "Charles" or "Charles the great" and various related things, and promoted learning (is he partly responsible for Europe becoming a center of learning?)

I guess I'm just starting a thread to talk about him generically.. and wondered if anyone else wants to share tidbits or thoughts or points of view related to his existence.

Commonly, the middle ages is said to start around 500 AD, so Charlemange would definitely would fall in the middle ages by most scholarly definition.

I saw one history video, who said that while Europe had been in decline since the fall of the Roman empire, the decline stopped after Charlemange - things never got quite as bad after him. Pretty much any ancient classical work that made it to his time survives today, he and his successors were noted for copying classical works, and Charlemange even had a script developed that promoted readability and ease of writing, which aided in making copies. His script, the Carolingian miniscule, is a basis for our modern writing scripts. The foundations of modern France date from his time, as does the Holy Roman Empire.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:38 AM   #24

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Commonly, the middle ages is said to start around 500 AD, so Charlemange would definitely would fall in the middle ages by most scholarly definition.

I saw one history video, who said that while Europe had been in decline since the fall of the Roman empire, the decline stopped after Charlemange - things never got quite as bad after him. Pretty much any ancient classical work that made it to his time survives today, he and his successors were noted for copying classical works, and Charlemange even had a script developed that promoted readability and ease of writing, which aided in making copies. His script, the Carolingian miniscule, is a basis for our modern writing scripts. The foundations of modern France date from his time, as does the Holy Roman Empire.
How I hate documentaries that talk of 'Europe' as it were actually a place. As if it were the 21st century.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 05:08 AM   #25

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How I hate documentaries that talk of 'Europe' as it were actually a place. As if it were the 21st century.
Don't understand your comment. Europe is actually a place. Just like Africa is actually a place.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #26

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Don't understand your comment. Europe is actually a place. Just like Africa is actually a place.
Ok so would we say 'Africa is in decline'? Or the reverse? Or might we talk about affairs in South Africa? Or maybe the Magreb? Or maybe East Africa, or Gao? It's a geographical area not an economic or political one.

In Europe - After the 'fall of the Roman Empire' Iberia was very much on the ascent after islam, but that is part of Europe. Bulgaria would form a strong part of the Byzantine empire. Surely other places too? Norse lands?

One might say France, Italy, Britain and Germany (as of today) were in decline at that time. But 'Europe was in decline' is just such a modernism and plain wrong.

You follow? Apologies it's just my reasoning!
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Old November 21st, 2017, 09:26 AM   #27

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Charlemagne and the Carolingians actually prove a common truism about European history isn't as straightforward as the Jared Diamonds of academia would have it be.They tried to reunify the old heartlands of the Roman Empire (the Eastern half that never quite fell also tried, of course) and rebuild a unified state in the heart of Europe. As with the Angevin Empire the Carolingian Empire transcends the separate trajectories of its successor states, so speaking of Karl der Grosse as a German or a Frenchman is equally anachronistic.

The Carolingians established a successful basis to revive the concept of Emperors in the West and their ultimate failure to do so reflects the same weakness of appanage succession that helped to doom Kievan Rus.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 10:48 AM   #28

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"Charles the Great" is, literally "Charlemagne" in English . Also Carlomagno in Spanish.
Und auf Deutsch, Karl der Große.....

I've always wondered what he was known as or called during his time? How was he addressed by his subjects? Was it dependent on what they language the particular individual spoke?

What did he call himself? Was he equally comfortable speaking many different languages?

Why do we usually refer to him as Charlemagne in the English speaking world?

Last edited by Menshevik; November 21st, 2017 at 10:50 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 10:59 AM   #29

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Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
Ok so would we say 'Africa is in decline'? Or the reverse? Or might we talk about affairs in South Africa? Or maybe the Magreb? Or maybe East Africa, or Gao? It's a geographical area not an economic or political one.

In Europe - After the 'fall of the Roman Empire' Iberia was very much on the ascent after islam, but that is part of Europe. Bulgaria would form a strong part of the Byzantine empire. Surely other places too? Norse lands?

One might say France, Italy, Britain and Germany (as of today) were in decline at that time. But 'Europe was in decline' is just such a modernism and plain wrong.

You follow? Apologies it's just my reasoning!
Well, not only Your reasoning. Count me in too
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Old November 21st, 2017, 11:09 AM   #30

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Bulgaria would form a strong part of the Byzantine empire.
Yeah, the Byzantine Empire didn't experience the same level of decline as Western Europe. Their situation was significantly worse (and even better in some respects) after the Arab conquests, but they were still pretty advanced state with a thriving culture and science. I also don't like when the people say "Europe was a place of backwardness". No, it wasn't.
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