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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:45 AM   #11

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The EU and the Iron Curtain were specifically designed to curb warfare. and both have worked. I cannot see another war between France, Germany, Italy, or Britain, happening soon, unless the EU falls apart and something radical happens between them. Even a war with Russia is far-fetched at this point, if only since Putin knows it would be a war he would lose, and would world war three.

If there are more separatist movements, then maybe a Western European country may use force to keep in the breakaway region.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:51 AM   #12

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The EU looks to be centralising even more, despite Brexit. If anything, it may strengthen with Brexit. There is talk of a central European armed forces command, which will operate within NATO, and of course, the Euro has been around for years.

Maybe a future war would be between a confederate (or federal) EU and UK/Norway/Turkey as allies, and Russia.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:54 AM   #13
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The EU looks to be centralising even more, despite Brexit. If anything, it may strengthen with Brexit. There is talk of a central European armed forces command, which will operate within NATO, and of course, the Euro has been around for years.

Maybe a future war would be between a confederate (or federal) EU and UK/Norway/Turkey as allies, and Russia.
If war returns into main european countries I think the eventual adversaries will not at all be like those we know from history. I don see on what cause Norway would side with Turkey and the UK and Russia against the EU in any real war. If war returns internally it can as well be more truly civil war of Europe. Meaning not only nation against nation but same citizens - same nationality - against each other.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 07:09 PM   #14

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Russia seems more different than most european countries though its "old core" is inside the territories usually seen as european.
Europe's a continent, not a single culture group which determines you're either in or you're out. Besides, it depends on the country you're comparing them to. If it's Britain and France then yes. But if it's Ukraine and Poland the difference is less obvious. Slavs are generally a distinct group of people in Europe, particularly those of Orthodox Christianity so when you single Russia out as less European you're doing yourself a disservice by making yourself look malicious right off the bat.

Just an observation from a bystander's point of view.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #15

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If war returns into main european countries I think the eventual adversaries will not at all be like those we know from history. I don see on what cause Norway would side with Turkey and the UK and Russia against the EU in any real war. If war returns internally it can as well be more truly civil war of Europe. Meaning not only nation against nation but same citizens - same nationality - against each other.
Norway is not an aggressive country, and despite not being an EU member is more socially, economically, and politically aligned with the EU than Russia. It already is a NATO member, so it would have to ally with current EU members who are also NATO members if Russia attacked them.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:32 PM   #16

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Europe's a continent, not a single culture group which determines you're either in or you're out. Besides, it depends on the country you're comparing them to. If it's Britain and France then yes. But if it's Ukraine and Poland the difference is less obvious. Slavs are generally a distinct group of people in Europe, particularly those of Orthodox Christianity so when you single Russia out as less European you're doing yourself a disservice by making yourself look malicious right off the bat.

Just an observation from a bystander's point of view.
Slavs are different though. I see it like Germanics, since Germans, Dutch, Danish, English, Norwegians, etc. have similarities, but only in history, language, and some cultural aspects. Romanians, Russians, Polish, and Czechs are all Slavs, but very different.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #17

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Slavs are different though. I see it like Germanics, since Germans, Dutch, Danish, English, Norwegians, etc. have similarities, but only in history, language, and some cultural aspects. Romanians, Russians, Polish, and Czechs are all Slavs, but very different.
Romanians aren't Slavs. And Slavs do have diversity but they're still a lot closer to each others than to western Europeans. You'll notice a big difference in politics between western and eastern Europe in the sense that the east is more conservative, for example, and the whole thing stems from different mentality. The main diversity among Slavs comes from the fact that its three major groups had three very different cultural impacts - Germanic, Mongol and Turkish.

Another thing. What's European and what isn't is not open to interpretation. If your culture and country established itself in Europe it is European by definition. Problem comes when you equate European with Western (culture) because now we have a problem with many Europeans excluded that don't have the same western values and many intercontinental countries included that do (like US, Canada and Australia).
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Old December 26th, 2017, 01:07 AM   #18
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Europe's a continent, not a single culture group which determines you're either in or you're out. Besides, it depends on the country you're comparing them to. If it's Britain and France then yes. But if it's Ukraine and Poland the difference is less obvious. Slavs are generally a distinct group of people in Europe, particularly those of Orthodox Christianity so when you single Russia out as less European you're doing yourself a disservice by making yourself look malicious right off the bat.

Just an observation from a bystander's point of view.
I see Europe is continent only by convention and the same being the case for its borders to the east. It could as well be said to. e a peninsula and surrounding ksles. That would have made mlre sense.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #19
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The long period of intra-European wars climaxed with WWII. In 1946 Canada was the fourth largest economy after the US, the USSR and the UK. Unlike any prior period, Europe was divided into three camps by 1950: the Warsaw Pact, NATO and the neutrals (Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finland and later Yugoslavia). Germany was divided between the Warsaw Pact and NATO. The major political development (IMO) in this period was the Treaty of Rome (1957) which led to the European Union, although that wasn't formalized until 1993.

Last edited by stevev; December 28th, 2017 at 06:50 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:45 AM   #20
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The long period of intra-European wars climaxed with WWII. In 1946 Canada was the fourth largest economy after the US, the USSR and the UK. Unlike any prior period, Europe was divided into three camps by 1950: the Warsaw Pact, NATO and the neutrals (Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finland and later Yugoslavia). Germany was divided between the Warsaw Pact and NATO. The major political development (IMO) in this period was the Treaty of Rome (1957) which led to the European Union, although that wasn't formalized until 1993.
While it is correct the ww2 was by far the most violent war, the period before was not one uniform period of intra-European wars. In the period 1871-1912 there was no major intra-european wars. That some speculated it would not happen again may not have seen so improbable as it may do in hinsight. And why see the neutrals as a "camp"?
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