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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:14 AM   #1
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c 1945-1989 seen as an exception in european history


How far is such a view sound?
A period of expressions of some anxiety and fear, yet much less actual violence than almost all previous european history it seems(perhaps with a few exceptions as some of the years between 1815(Waterloo)and 1914(ww1)), especially the last part (1871-1914) with little fighting outside the southeastern "frontiers".
Then also domination/ division of external powers (though Russia is partially "european"). And leaving most power "overseas".
Has even central parts of what was "european" disappeared for good, to some degree exchanged for versions of "americanism" or other isms?

Last edited by Fantasus; December 21st, 2017 at 05:57 AM. Reason: typing errors
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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:39 AM   #2

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I'm really sorry but that makes no sense at all to me.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:39 AM   #3

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Nukes will do that
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Old December 21st, 2017, 06:28 AM   #4
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To make it more clear: the years from 1945 to 1989 were exceptional because:
1: there was far more bloodshed in almost all other periods of that duration in european history. The only possible exceptions I can think of is mentionedin the OP.
2:Powers outside Europe dominated it way more than in any earlier period.3:
Instead of the former identities of europeans came somewhat "americanised" europeans.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 06:44 AM   #5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasus View Post
To make it more clear: the years from 1945 to 1989 were exceptional because:
1: there was far more bloodshed in almost all other periods of that duration in european history. The only possible exceptions I can think of is mentionedin the OP.
2:Powers outside Europe dominated it way more than in any earlier period.3:
Instead of the former identities of europeans came somewhat "americanised" europeans.
*1 ... quite correct: it was useless to fight in the European continent: the two superpowers had the possibility to use nukes ... otherwise Europe would have kept on being a battlefield.

*2 ... I wouldn't say that ... Russia is anyway an European power, so that the Soviet Empire was European as well. America could be seen as the Caliphate of medieval times.

*3 ... not exactly. From a Western European perspective we felt "Westerns" not "americanised".
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Old December 21st, 2017, 09:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
*1 ... quite correct: it was useless to fight in the European continent: the two superpowers had the possibility to use nukes ... otherwise Europe would have kept on being a battlefield.

*2 ... I wouldn't say that ... Russia is anyway an European power, so that the Soviet Empire was European as well. America could be seen as the Caliphate of medieval times.

*3 ... not exactly. From a Western European perspective we felt "Westerns" not "americanised".
Russia seems more different than most european countries though its "old core" is inside the territories usually seen as european.
About "americanisation": I seems likely it happened differently in different parts of western Europe. Perhaps not as much in the "roman" lands?
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Old December 21st, 2017, 12:12 PM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasus View Post
To make it more clear: the years from 1945 to 1989 were exceptional because:
1: there was far more bloodshed in almost all other periods of that duration in european history. The only possible exceptions I can think of is mentionedin the OP.
2:Powers outside Europe dominated it way more than in any earlier period.3:
Instead of the former identities of europeans came somewhat "americanised" europeans.
One thing of which history reminds us is, most things are relative and cyclical . So, if you look back into history, you will find periods where Europe did not necessarily dominate. I think Europe’s decline in dominance during the OP’s time frame can be attributed to the consequences of WW2 and the progression of the U.S., a relative latecomer on the world scene. I would also argue that the bloodshed during periods such as the Thirty Years War was comparable.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 02:41 PM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasus View Post
to make it more clear: The years from 1945 to 1989 were exceptional because:
1: There was far more bloodshed in almost all other periods of that duration in european history. The only possible exceptions i can think of is mentionedin the op.
2owers outside europe dominated it way more than in any earlier period.3:
Instead of the former identities of europeans came somewhat "americanised" europeans.
1880-1914?
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Old December 21st, 2017, 02:44 PM   #9

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I would say that the Cold War period was exceptional because it reduced the European geopolitical landscape into only two camps - West and East. For all of recorded history before that, Europe was a patchwork series of many rivals all competing for their own interests.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
One thing of which history reminds us is, most things are relative and cyclical . So, if you look back into history, you will find periods where Europe did not necessarily dominate. I think Europeís decline in dominance during the OPís time frame can be attributed to the consequences of WW2 and the progression of the U.S., a relative latecomer on the world scene. I would also argue that the bloodshed during periods such as the Thirty Years War was comparable.
During most of history Europe did not "dominate the world".
On the other hand european powers usually either ruled or at least dominated most of Europe itself. Not so during the mentioned period were a non european power took the lead in european affairs. Such never happened in any recorded era before I think.
While the bloodshed during the 30 years war may in relative terms be comparable to the most bloody part of the 20.th century it may be harder to find a period like the one after 1945 where there was as little bloodshed, perhaps with the exeption of the earlier mentioned decades before the start of the Great War in 1914. Though in those times they had the Balkan wars.
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