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Old December 24th, 2017, 10:27 PM   #1
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What criteria define nazism ?


What are unique criteria (or unique combination of criteria) which define it with precision ?
(i.e.: a regime meeting these criteria or combination of criteria can be defined as nazi .... and lets assume here that the "technical criteria" of having a party calling itself national socialist is not mandatory... after all a party can call itself anything it wants)

Based on those criteria are there any other regimes (other than the ww2 era german one obviously) that qualify as "nazi" (even though they may not have been called such) ? Before the 1930s ? After WW2 ?
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:09 AM   #2
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One of the major ones is its ideology of racial superiority.

I don't really know if any other regime ever implemented something like that.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #3

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From an Italian perspective, our historiography tends to define Nazism a kind of Fascism [simply because Fascism appeared before of it and Nazism, in the phase of development, copied a bit from the Italian model].

Obviously is a matter of definitions.

Probably, since to say that Nazism was dictatorial would be mundane and useless, we should pay attention to the ideological bases and to how the two parties applied them to their real political life.

Fascism and Nazism made reference to the working class [industrial and agricultural] promoting a model of social development to go beyond the division of the society. Fascism proposed and realized a system of "corporations" where workers and businessmen of an economical sectors were all together. Labor Unions as we know them disappeared.

So, Nazism is a dictatorial system based on a strong ideological identity which involves all the "classes" without erasing them [like Fascism, Socialism didn't erase the private property, on the contrary, it looked for an active cooperation of the great capital]. Creating a system of "diffused control".

I think that the difference with what happened in Russia is just that Nazism didn't erase the classes, keeping a kind of market economy [even if closed and oriented], but at the end the other aspects were substantially there.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:14 AM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTANT View Post
One of the major ones is its ideology of racial superiority.

I don't really know if any other regime ever implemented something like that.
Yes, if we want to take a look at the strong ideological base, this was common [also Fascists believed in something similar]. Anyway it was a development of a certain culture of superiority which existed in colonialist Europe.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:56 AM   #5
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Fascist - rule based on the strongman, effective rule by force, complete takeover of all the organs of the state, everything under the complete control of the leader and his party, no democratic intuitions , no check and balances, no rule of law,

Nationalist - extreme nationalism, no respect for anyone else. rule of the strong.

Racist - racial dogma stressing superiority./inferiority racial purity.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTANT View Post
One of the major ones is its ideology of racial superiority.

I don't really know if any other regime ever implemented something like that.
Did not the Japanese have something similar, not sure it was "formalized" though ? Then of course there is south Africa till the 1980s.... and even to some extent the US, especially the South until the 1960s.... More widely most countries view/or have viewed in the past themselves (and thus their dominant ethnicity) as superior to others... It goes back a long way... Ancient athenians viewed themselves as superior and, like in most greek cities, the status of Metic (resident foreigner) was deemed inferior... So much so that it has become an insult in some languages... Spartans regularly expelled all their metics to "clean up" the city.... Generally the greeks saw themselves as inherently superior to the "effeminate" persians (who - imagine!- wore pants... )... But of course they did not view this difference in terms of "race".

a short brief on "scientific racism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

while the nazis pushed the concept much further than any others, the topic was "popular" in the first half of the 20th century, especially in the US...

but you may be right that they are among the very few (aside from South Africa?) who translated racist ideologies into government policy
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by pugsville View Post
Fascist - rule based on the strongman, effective rule by force, complete takeover of all the organs of the state, everything under the complete control of the leader and his party, no democratic intuitions , no check and balances, no rule of law,
.
How is that different to a good all fashioned dictatorship ? or to today's North Korea for example ?
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Old December 25th, 2017, 02:21 AM   #8
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How is that different to a good all fashioned dictatorship ? or to today's North Korea for example ?
All totalitarian regimes bear many similarities, regardless of the alleged dogma. Totalitarian means total takeover of society, that the ruling group/party have all authority and control without any sort of check /balances or ideas about individual rights. The Government, the Courts, the Military are all absolutely under the control of the ruling leader/group/party.

The means defines the ends to a large degree. The means you use shape your society. You suppress all opposition, rig/bully the courts, control all the press, universities, regardless of the alleged rights/values espoused, there is not much difference between communists Totalitarianism and fascist Totalitarianism.

Not all dictators nesscairly push towards Totalitarianism, often there is a corrupt cronyism and personnel/group "fiefdoms" (Under Hitler you could say Goering and Himmler had a degree of this) and it's not that easy to push though all layers and institutions. While others in Germany wanted a dictatorship, few planned to push though to the total; remake of society to subdue and incorporate almost everything in society into a function of the ruling group. The Nazis did, they took over everything, all marching bands, sports groups, hunting clubs, professional associations (almost all organisations no matter what purpose) had to be Nazified, brought into a single national organisation that was part of the Nazi party, their funds controlled by, membership controlled, leadership appointed.

Your run of the Mill Dictator normally stops at controlling the government, military, the police, and the money, the Nazis always planned to go all the way. The Scope and depth of their takeover was quite total.

Last edited by pugsville; December 25th, 2017 at 02:31 AM.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 03:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
What are unique criteria (or unique combination of criteria) which define it with precision ?
(i.e.: a regime meeting these criteria or combination of criteria can be defined as nazi .... and lets assume here that the "technical criteria" of having a party calling itself national socialist is not mandatory... after all a party can call itself anything it wants)

Based on those criteria are there any other regimes (other than the ww2 era german one obviously) that qualify as "nazi" (even though they may not have been called such) ? Before the 1930s ? After WW2 ?
Placing racial doctrine at the heart of both domestic and foreign policy. I'm not sure any other country has done that - ever.

All of their policies flowed from that core racial doctrine.

Generally, the Nazis were opportunists and made it up as they went along, but that racial doctrine was a constant.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 03:41 AM   #10
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Placing racial doctrine at the heart of both domestic and foreign policy. I'm not sure any other country has done that - ever.

All of their policies flowed from that core racial doctrine.

Generally, the Nazis were opportunists and made it up as they went along, but that racial doctrine was a constant.
I would also add that I can't think of any government in the modern era less fit to run a country.

And, I don't mean in terms of their beliefs; I mean in terms of being an absolute shambles.

Organisation was chaotic, they were at one another's throats in an attempt to please Hitler (in an extreme fashion), most of them had absolutely no political pre-requisites or nous (except maybe Goebbels and Speer) and they had 19th century ideas in a 20th century world.

They didn't really know what they were doing except making it up as they went along.
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